However, realizing that over 2,000 people are friends with this person (whom I won't name here), I figured it's not really private anymore, and Sharmagne is also quite public.
Here is the post:
I love this part:
"Bugliosi withheld so much info on the murders, but I never understood why."
Personally, I've never heard of Sharmagne Leland-St. John until I read the above post. She says she was Jay Sebring's girlfriend. I'll admit I don't know much at all about Jay's private life during that time, maybe someone that does can chime in...
She has a public Facebook page, a Wiki page, and an IMdB page. Sharmagne is quite accomplished as a poet and actress. Her parents were actors. She was married to Richard Sylbert, the Oscar-winning production designer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharmagne_Leland-St._John
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0500912/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm
I checked the Tate/LaBianca police reports and she is not listed as a suspect, although she clearly admits she was, along with Charles Tacot and others.
It's also the first I've read that Roman had plans of switching houses with Michael Butler.
(From Wiki)
"Michael Butler is an American theatrical producer best known for bringing the rock musical Hair from Public Theater to Broadway in 1968. During his time as Hair producer he was dubbed by the press as "the Hippie Millionaire."
"My future nephew was married to Gibby's younger sister." In researching Elizabeth Folger, I could only find that Elizabeth was married to Robert Eldred. Not sure if Robert was her future nephew, but thought I would throw all this out there as most here are always interested in the Folgers.
Here is Elizabeth in 2010:
Robert Eldred is a Financial Planner in the Bay Area.
And once again we hear the story that the Manson girls were swimming in the Cielo pool a day before the murders.
I faintly remember reading something long ago about the cast from Hair being questioned, (also thrown out of Mexico at that time) but I don't recall the specifics...unfortunately...
Anyway, I'm glad to see some of the folks that were actually there starting to speak up, maybe with all these little tid-bits we'll be able to connect more dots!
59 comments:
Thanks Kimchi.
As always, your research is very interesting.
Venus is our "resident expert" on Jay Sebring, so hopefully she'll see this, and chime-in.
Remember everyone that Rosina Kroner Watson's "girlfriend" who was taken hostage by Lotsappapa, Bernard Crowe was roommates with Corrine Broskett, a cast member of "Hair." She was also friendly with the Gemini Twins who were also in "Hair" and were friends with Pic Dawson, which leads back to Cass Elliot.
Yes! Thank you Beauders!
Your comment made me dig a little further and led me to Michael Butler's website and to the alumni page...
Come to find out, Sharmagne Leland was also a cast member in Hair!
http://www.michaelbutler.com/hair/holding/links/castlinks.html
He (Butler) also has the newspaper articles about the Mexico deportment and it occurred in January 1969, although it doesn't give names.
Beauders, who were the Gemini Twins?
Rosina meets Tex in Mar 69.
July 1 Tex burns Lotsapoppa-Rosina held as collateral.
Rosina seems to vanish from the scene that afternoon.
July 4 Tex meets Linda Kasabian. The two become inseparable.
Aug 8 Tex and Linda appear at Cielo and murder Sharon Tate.
Kasabian leaves Tex and heads to Taos NM that same week.
Thanks, Kimchi. Don't know what to make of this. I find it hard to believe that Sharon would allow the Manson girls to use her swimming pool the day before the murders. Like Lynyrd, I can't wait for Venus to comment!!
Hi Carol,
Could you please contact Venus for us.
I have 2 or 3 email addresses for her, but none of them seem to work consistently.
I think Katie chats with her periodically too...
Bob!
GREAT to see you Brother!
I hope you're doing well!
Hi, Lynyrd! I've already contacted Venus and I will let you know when I hear back from her.
Thanks Kimchi, interesting stuff! Thanks Carol!! I just heard from Venus. She should have some good info soon....
That's the first I've heard of them "swapping houses". I've never heard Doris, Patty or Debra mention it. Did Sharon know about that? Wasn't she having the nursery painted? Why do that if you're going to swap with someone. And didn't they sign a lease with Altobelli?
Katie, can't wait to hear what Venus has to say!
I feel like we should be listening to the theme song from Jeopardy. LOL!
Well I heard from Venus again, and she's having trouble with internet access due to bad weather. Hopefully she can comment in the next few days. Thanks Venus!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPNPZdOvBq4
The Gemini Twins were two actresses who were in "Hair."
Beauders said: The Gemini Twins were two actresses who were in "Hair."
I'm sorry Beauders, that just sounded funny and redundant. Gemini which means "2", and "Hair", which is what we were talking about.
I just thought that sounded funny.
Bugliosi passed away tonight
Vincent Bugliosi, the Los Angeles County deputy district attorney who gained worldwide fame for his successful prosecutions of Charles Manson and his followers for the brutal 1969 murders of actress Sharon Tate and six others, has died. He was 80.
Bugliosi also become a best-selling true crime writer, co-authoring the compelling account “Helter Skelter” about the Manson murders and the sensational trial that followed, as well as other literary works.
But he was always aware of his primary legacy.
“No matter what I do, I’ll be forever known as the Manson prosecutor,” he told once told The Times.
Vincent Bugliosi, who prosecuted Charles Manson and went on to co-write bestseller “Helter Skelter” about the trial, died Saturday at 80.
A 1976 TV movie was based on the book “Helter Skelter,” which he co-wrote with Curt Gentry, with another TV version in 2004. Bugliosi also wrote the book “The Prosecution of the American President” on which the 2013 film “Parkland” was based. His books “And the Sea Will Tell” and “Till Death Us Do Part” were also made into TV movies.
He successfully prosecuted Charles Manson and four others accused of the 1969 Tate-LaBianca murders, using circumstantial evidence to show that Manson ordered the killings although he did not physically commit the murders at Sharon Tate’s house.
His son, Vincent Bugliosi, Jr., told NBC News “He was a workaholic. What was remarkable was he always found time for everyone who needed work. Every fan letter he received, he responded to everyone.”
Bugliosi was born in Minnesota and earned a law degree in UCLA, then worked in the L.A. County District Attorney’s office. After entering private practice in 1972, he went on to write or co-write 12 books including “Outrage: The Five Reasons Why OJ Simpson Got Away With Murder.”
He is survived by his wife Gail and two children, Wendy and Vincent Jr.
Famed former prosecutor and author Vincent Bugliosi has died at age 80, family members said Monday night.
Bugliosi was best known for prosecuting Charles Manson and the other defendants in the 1969 Tate-LaBianca murders. He later co-wrote the book “Helter Skelter” detailing the trial.
Born in Hibbing, Minnesota, Bugliosi moved to LA in the 1960s, where he earned his law degree from UCLA. During his time with the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s office, he successfully secured convictions in 105 of 106 felony jury trials, including 21 murder cases.
Bugliosi died Saturday, June 6.
“He was a workaholic. What was remarkable was he always found time for everyone who needed work. Every fan letter he received, he responded to everyone,” said his son, Vincent Bugliosi, Jr.
Bugliosi went into private practice in 1972, and went on to author or co-author a dozen books, including “And the Sea Will Tell,” “Outrage: The Five Reasons Why OJ Simpson Got Away With Murder,” and “The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder.”
He is survived by Gail, his wife of 59 years, and his two children, Wendy and Vincent Jr.
Above, I said he passed away tonight but apparently he passed Saturday. It was announced tonight.
Thanks Stormsurge. May he rest in peace!!! I hope now that people can quit calling him a liar.
Welcome. We don't give enough thanks to the people who keep us all safe.
BTW, my name reflects that I'm a fan of the University of Miami athletics, football especially. Bugliosi went to UM as an undergrad on a tennis scholarship.
You're right Stormy!!! Vincent did us all a big favor by putting those animals away!!
Thank You Stormsurge.
GREAT to see you Brother!
A lot seemed to happen on August 7th, Charlie & Steph go to San Diego, Charlie picks up a traffic ticket and lays Helter skelter on Steph's sister; Bobby gets arraigned in court for the murder of Gary Hinman and at some point apparently lets the girls at the ranch know........and then they go to the Tates for a swim session !
I'm not really being cynical when I say I don't believe it.
Hello Grim Traveller,
Please contact me at your convenience.
lynyrdskynyrdband@gmail.com
Thanks, LS
Thx Lynyrd and Katie. YOU guys are the best. Always make me feel glad to come here and lots of interesting discussion.
Thanks Stormy!!!
Venus e-mailed me, and she's having trouble getting on the blog for some reason, but gave me a message to convey: I contacted a few different people and was just told that he dated a lot of women. :-)
Thanks Venus, I'm sure he did. But maybe Jay needed reminding that Sharmagne was his girlfriend. On August 6,1969 he was frantically looking for another girl....
http://www.lsb3.com/2011/10/jay-had-his-mind-on-something-else-aug.html
Katie, I haven't heard back from Venus. Did she tell you if she has anything more to add to this story?
I think this Sharmagne is a grade A liar.
Mind you, Charles Tacot was listed as a suspect in the first Tate report although by then, he'd been eliminated.
To set the record straight, I think grimtraveller is a Grade-A A-hole!
When I was questioned for 6 hours in my home by an Asian/Latino detective and his partner, Charlie Tacot was still under suspicion. I knew Charlie Taco. Brian Morris was also suspected. but that was ridiculous! Everyone in our crowd suspected everyone else.
When it was thought that it was a witchcraft/devil worship murder someone told them I was a witch. I'm sure they meant Bitch! Hence the cops came calling, to interrogate me.
Re: Abigail Folger's younger sister... either my late husband or his twin brother remarked that my nephew Christopher Sylbert had been in a relationship with the Folger girl which I understood to have been a marriage. Chris Sylbert was the son of Victoria Delacorte (Dell Publishing) It didn't seem odd to me that they would have been a couple. Since they both came from extremely wealthy families.
There was no reason for me to have ever mentioned it to Christopher who died several years ago of MS. HIs funeral was in the Wee Kirk O' the Heather at Forest Lawn Glendale. Ring any bells? On my Facebook page I merely repeated what I was told by the Sylbert family, into which I had married.
On another thread I have listed many of the people I recognise from Jay's funeral video.
I don't like being called a liar by some jackass delivery boy who is infatuated with hapless murder victims.
"Sharmagne,"
The victims are of very little interest to me, actually.
My comment about you as a liar was in reference to your stating that "the Manson girls that killed Sharon Tate" were swimming in the pool at Cielo the day before the murders.
And if all you were doing was repeating on your page what "the Sylberts" told you, then shame on you because if your second last paragraph about being a suspect is true, you should be writhing with embarrassment for ever posting that stuff. You accuse Bugliosi of leaving out so many facts; well, you left in so many things that are not facts.
Thanks for the e-mail by the way, "Sharmagne."
GrimTraveler print out my email, as you call it,
and shove it up your arse. Plenty of room
up there.
Manson was known to have visited Garretson
His guests were not barred from using the pool.
If the victims mean nothing to you then what are you even doing here?
I didn't say they meant "nothing" to me. Once again, I'm replying in a particular context ~ that of you stating my infatuations.
So Manson was known to have visited Garretson ? Verify, please.
Yes, Garretson's guests weren't barred from using the pool. That isn't the issue. The issue is your statement that the "Manson girls that killed Sharon Tate" were swimming in the pool the day before the murders. People who can't back up their stuff usually resort to red herrings and insults. Or they are graceful enough to say, "I was wrong" and risk being laughed at ~ but are just as likely to win respect.
If you really are "Sharmagne" you've got some mouth on you for an old lady !
But tell me, why would I want to shove anything from you up my arse ?
Come to think of it, "arse" is very English.
What ho and toodle pip, dearie !!
Sharmagne Leland-St.John-Sylbert said...
To set the record straight, I think grimtraveller is a Grade-A A-hole!
You're setting the wrong record straight. That above is opinion. And hardly original.
Give me facts. Contribute something worthwhile and wholesome to the debate as an "insider."
I'm all ears "Sharmagne."
No you are all conjecture and innuendo! and name calling first.
Until you apologise for calling me a liar I have nothing more to say to you.
"People who can't back up their stuff usually resort to red herrings and insults."grim
You started the insults!
"I didn't say they meant "nothing" to me". grim
"The victims are of very little interest to me, actually." grim
Very little is one step above nothing!
"If you really are "Sharmagne" you've got some mouth on you for an old lady !" grim
If you really are grimtraveller you have some mouth on you for a delivery boy with stupid looking hair!
You have done nothing but insult or try to insult me since you first uttered my name! I am proud of the age I have achieved and my accomplishments. Most of my friends from that era are all gone and frittered their short lives away.
Sharmagne Leland-St.John-Sylbert said...
No you are all conjecture and innuendo! and name calling first
I didn't call you names. That is not my style. I said I thought "this Sharmagne" was a grade A liar. That is not calling you names. That was stating an opinion. In my original statement, I wasn't even addressing "Sharmagne." If you really are Sharmagne, rest assured, I'm not insulting or calling you names when I say I think you're lying.
Until you apologise for calling me a liar I have nothing more to say to you
But I do think that whoever wrote that facebook post is lying. Susan Atkins has written or been the major contributor to 3 books, one of them an autobiography, one a virtual autobiography and one of them based on her words verbatim. She, from 1969 to her death in 2009 spoke extensively about what led up to the murders and the murders themselves. She has never said she was ever at Cielo the day before the murders. Quite the opposite actually. She would have had nothing to lose by stating she had if she had. Indeed, one of her key statements about the night in question was that Tex said he knew the house and it's layout, clearly implying that she knew neither.
Linda Kasabian was on the witness stand 18 days in the original trial, more days for the Watson and later Van Houten trials; she's been interviewed ad nauseam by law enforcement and TV and not once has she ever stated she'd previously been to Cielo. Charles Manson's lawyer even flew some woman, June Emmers, down to the trial in an attempt to get her to discredit Kasabian as a liar by saying that Kasabian told her about the rich glitzy $250,000 houses she'd been in. In the end, the judge had to have her testimony stricken from the record, she was so unreliable.
Pat Krenwinkel has had numerous parole hearings since 1978 and in them the board drag her through the details of life prior to the killings and the killings themselves and while Pat has been all over the place in various ways, she has been consistent about certain things. Among those things are that she didn't know before she set out that they were going to kill, she didn't know any of the victims {it is interesting that none of the killers ever recalled seeing a Sharon Tate film} and she didn't know where they were going and when they got there, she followed Tex.....because she'd never been there.
So again I'll say it, to say the women that killed Sharon were swimming in the pool at Cielo the day before is at worst lying, at best, repeating falsehoods which amount to more or less the same thing.
Besides which, it has been a matter of both record and by his admission since 1971, that Charles Watson killed Sharon Tate. So I most certainly am not apologizing, although it was not my intention to offend "Sharmagne."
You ought to deal with the matter at hand "Sharmagne." In fact, you could be of great benefit to this blog. There's quite a few Jay Sebring fans here.
Sharmagne Leland-St.John-Sylbert said...
grim, You started the insults!
I've not insulted you. Some of the people closest to me have been liars ! And I love them to bits. I used to be a liar. When I was called out for that reason as a youth, even when I wasn't lying, the persons that would have called me a liar weren't insulting me. I certainly wouldn't insult an old lady. I might get sarcastic {for me it's humour}, but insult ? No. I wouldn't even insult Surgio.
Very little is one step above nothing!
Sure it is. But it's still more.
If the victims mean nothing to you then what are you even doing here?
There are many characters within the saga, criminals, victims, law enforcers, writers, family members etc, not to mention a plethora of associated subjects like religion, metaphysics, drugs, society, sex, music, the 60s, the law, the counterculture, different decades, race, politics, crime etc, etc, many of which I find fascinating in and of themselves. Put together, it's an endless feast.
If you really are grimtraveller you have some mouth on you for a delivery boy with stupid looking hair!
But I don't deny it nor am I offended or embarrassed by it or you saying it.
If you are really an old lady, you've got a sassy mouth on you. That's not an insult, that's almost a compliment because I happen to find it quite funny that an old lady would bang out insults to some guy she doesn't even know. I've known a number of sassy old ladies in my time and when they've started going into one, it's always amused me.
When you keep calling me a delivery boy {I'm 53}, if I was American, I might take that the wrong way but as a Brit, Black people were rarely called "boy" here so it's no odds to me. Delivery work has helped buy my house, clothe and feed my family, pay for some great holidays, musical instruments, albums and books and a lot more besides. Why would I be offended ?
And I like my hair ! At least it's all mine !!
You have done nothing but insult or try to insult me since you first uttered my name!
Not so. I've called you out on matters I think you are somewhat duplicitous about. As for the answers "Sharmagne" could give, like Diana Ross back in '71, I'm still waiting.
I am proud of the age I have achieved and my accomplishments
No reason you shouldn't be.
Unless.....
From what I understand and have read the Garretson had a friend Darrell stay at the house for a few days but asked him to leave because he helped himself to some champagne that was in the main house....during his stay he invited 2 girls...one by the name of Patty Montgomery to join them....it is speculated that this girl is Krenwinkle.
GRIM You want facts read Tom O'Neill's book. Many of the things I said back in 2016 are repeated in his book which was published in 2019. I don't recall saying "the women" who committed the murders were in the pool two days before the murders. I believe I said "2 of the Manson girls" were swimming in the pool 2 days before the murder.
Earlier I saw posts about Morreen/Maureen and Colleen Thornton "The Gemini Twins".
Here are links to photos of them:
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/306807793343459950/?nic_v2=1a4rL5mbe
http://themchanges.com/wordpress/?page_id=174
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Morreen_Thornton
You can also find them on IMDb.
Corinne Broskette, who is a very close friend of mine, now lives in Florida and runs a theatre company. Corrinne lived next door to me on Fareholm Drive in the late 60s and early 70s. She told me a lot of stories about people mentioned in these threads with whom she shared an apartment before the murders. Corinne was one of the women who was thrown out of Mexico during the HAiR expulsion.
https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2010/04/22/two-local-alums-recallthe-wild-days/
Corinne is on IMDb...
Sharmagne,
When you say "our maid, Winnie Chapman" are you saying she was your maid in some time period after the Tate-LaBianca murders? Or an earlier time period?
Also you say Abigail Folger treated some of the Manson girls for the clap at the Free Clinic. What is your source for this info?
Thanx!
Winnie Chapman worked for us at Easton Drive. I'm not sure if you know that I lived with Jay at the Jean Harlow property. She also worked for my friend Harry Falk. After the murders she refused to work "up" in the hills anymore. Harry was one block off Hollywood Blvd. She was just scared to ever work for celebrities again. I think Winnie also worked for Sharon and Roman when they rented Harry Falk and Patty Dukes Summit Ridge home.
My Cousin Stella Runnels Leach opened the Well Baby Clinic in Oakland, CA. She also opened the clinic and school on Alcatraz when several of my family members seized the island and held it for 19 months because of broken treaties. Stella knew Abigail. In 2002 I began doing a documentary on Stella and during the interviews she mentioned that Manson used to send his girls to the free clinic and Abigail was a volunteer there.
Sharmagne,
Thank you so much for your prompt response!
"I think Winnie also worked for Sharon and Roman when they rented Harry Falk and Patty Dukes Summit Ridge home."
Yes, Ms. Chapman did work for them at the Summit Ridge home before they moved to Cielo.
If anyone would like, they can ask me about photos of Sharon and Roman's home from photos and videos. I noticed frequently it says a photo or film was taken at Cielo but I know for sure it was actually Summit Ridge. After Jay was murdered I began a relation ship with Harry Falk, so I recognise many of the wall ornaments and furniture as being from Summit Ridge. Its such a small world.
Sharmagne,
"Winnie Chapman worked for us at Easton Drive."
Do you have a time frame for when this would have occurred?
Also, did you ever hear anything about why Ms. Chapman disappeared for a month after the murders? (from Oct 10, 1969 to November 6th, 1969)
[For details see my post here:
https://murdersofaugust69.freeforums.net/thread/705/winifred-chapman?page=2 ]
Winnie worked for Jay before I moved into Easton Drive with him.
She worked on Summit Ridge after Valley of the Dolls because she met Harry and Patty during the filming and hung out with them on the cruise ship during the "wrap" party.
I remember when she disappeared and her purse was still in her home. I just chalked it up to PTSD or fear that she might be in danger.
Other than her telling me she didn't want to work up in the hills anymore I had no contact with her in the months following the murders or anytime since.
Emblazoned in my memory is the photo of her in the newspaper. She was a pale as a ghost.
Hes FAR WORSE than that- if he were NOW he'd be a murderer/ the white collar variety. I'd save sympathy you have for him, for his family. Reagan, Younger, Stovitz and Booga'- the brightest burning piles of shit IN HELL- may they shine forever.
Ma'am-- I dont buy your story.
Questions- a few so this wont be long in the tooth:
1.who is carrie white/why is it her and not you shown on the footage contained on the recent Jay Sebring documentary walking down the steps of his Easton home.
2 Debra Tate claims emphatically that SHE was the Cielo "lady" of the house: at 16, and still no word ABOUT YOU/FROM YOU. Between Eve Babowitz BS, you, white, and lily debbie are helping polanski stay a certain way within folks minds.
3 is the reason your quiet is so deep is because of the way that careless little free martin talked in his 1984 interview with a Clive Owen? regarding his friends in hollywood having a hermetical 'seal'(at least leading up to the murders) that would IMPLICITLY connect your husband and BEATTY--- and judging from her meltdown Farrow as well regarding the 'whodunit' aspects?
WHOEVER THIS IS YOUR EITHER CRAFTY- OR YOU ARE SOME RICKIE GERVAISE TWINK WANNABE. FIX THOSE TEEETH--then toss off.
Sharmagne said:
GRIM You want facts read Tom O'Neill's book
Blimey Sharmagne, I thought you weren't talking to me ?
Ha ha, just a joke on my part !
I was in a shop with my son testing out a laptop 4 days ago, and we were looking at how well it connected to the internet, so randomly, I came to this page and saw your entry.
I was somewhat surprised.
Hello !
Anyway, I have read "Chaos." It's a good book ~ but it ends up being its own greatest adversary. Tom is so keen to put the mockers on Bugliosi {in particular and LE in general}, that every segment of his book could well be true and almost every character spoken to could well be speaking the truth. But for all of that to be true, you would have a cornucopia of things that would add up to a situation that cannot possibly be true.
The irony of his book and his "findings" is that by bringing together all the conspiracies and possibilities, he actually ends up simplifying the complexity of Bugliosi's presentation.
That's irony !
So, in terms of facts, well, much of it is not factual, but opinion and supposition, mixed with some facts and in that regard, it's not really any different to most of the Helter-skeptic book, documentaries and articles of the last 33 or so years.
Many of the things I said back in 2016 are repeated in his book which was published in 2019
That doesn't mean a great deal in this case. So much fantasy, speculation and denial have taken over from actual first-hand accounts of the participants and have been doing the rounds on blogs as long ago as when George W Bush was prez of the USA.
I don't recall saying "the women" who committed the murders were in the pool two days before the murders
OK, we knocked heads back in 2016 about this ~ I've never had anything against you personally, but I stand by everything I said at the time. You may not recall saying that stuff, but your writing is the very subject of this thread. It is what you said that I was commenting on in the first place.
I believe I said "2 of the Manson girls" were swimming in the pool 2 days before the murder
It is there in black and white. It can't be denied. It is written :"The girls who killed Sharon had been at the property swimming the day before the murders." You wrote that. It is stated as fact. You couldn't possibly know this as fact. But if you do, verify it. That's not an unfair request.
You also said that Charles Manson "came to visit Garret who lived in the guest house." I think I asked you to verify that. People have been speculating for more than 20 years about whether Garretson had any relationship with Manson, Watson or Pat Krenwinkle but no link has ever been established. Garretson testified in court that he'd never set eyes on him. But you stated as a fact that Manson came to see him. Yet it is on record that Garretson did not even move into the guest house until the day its owner, Rudi Altobelli, left for Europe ~ this was after the day Manson came to the guest house, incidentally, asking for Terry Melcher. With that in mind, can you understand why I called you out on these matters ?
And can you understand why I called you a liar when you referred to yourself as a "prime suspect" ? There is no record of this. The 2 Tate police reports list all the people that were listed as suspects. Charles Tacot is on the list ~ but you are not. I wanted to be generous and just cast you as someone exaggerating a little, but I couldn't because that is out of the realm of exaggeration. Saying you were a prime suspect when you weren't, is not fantasy, it's not exaggeration.
What would you describe it as ?
I was never trying to offend you, and I'm not now.
When one is interrogated for 6 hours by 2 detectives trying to find the murderer of 2 of your friends and you are accused of being a witch by other so called friends, and they say witchcraft was involved, it feels as if you are a "prime" suspect. THey treated me as if they thought I had committed the murders...being Jay's girlfriend leads one to believe maybe it was a jealousy murder. I was never jealous of the relationship between Jay and Sharon. When I was told that Manson had been on the property the day before Sharon left for Europe, I was told that he was looking for someone in the guest house. I just assumed it was garretson. since that was the only person I ever heard mentioned in connection with the guest house. I hope your son doesn't turn out to be as obnoxious as you are!
'
I also heard about one of the girls swimming at the house the day before (Linda Krenwinkle?) perhaps thats how they knew of the path that went behind the house and down the hill where Kasabian stashed the stolen knives. Never heard that Polanski wanted to switch houses...Sharon always stated that Cielo Drive was her "love house"....
"Ma'am-- I dont buy your story."
No one is asking you to buy it...It was given free of charge!
Unknown:"Questions- a few so this wont be long in the tooth:"
~S~ (TOO LATE!)
Unknown: "1.who is carrie white/why is it her and not you shown on the footage contained on the recent Jay Sebring documentary walking down the steps of his Easton home."
~S~ Carrie White was a close friend of Sharon and Jay and a friend to me independently for many years. She is a hairdresser. Carrie and I flew over to England together for the wedding of Sharon and Roman.
Unknown "2 Debra Tate claims emphatically that SHE was the Cielo "lady" of the house: at 16, and still no word ABOUT YOU/FROM YOU."
~S~ I never claimed to be the "Cielo "lady" of the house. Why would there be word from me or about me re: the Cielo Drive House? I never lived there. Jay and I lived in Easton Drive house. I can't imagine what you are nattering on about. You'll have to ask Anthony why it is carrie White on the stairs in the documentary. I lost touch with Anthony when I moved to Tuscany 4 years ago. I spoke to him at length amny times when he was gearing up to make the doc. One time I drained the battery on my car, because he called me while I was driving and I pulled over to take the call. We spoke for close to an hour. There were other phone calls.
Unknown: "Between Eve Babowitz BS, you, white, and lily debbie are helping polanski stay a certain way within folks minds"
~S~ Evie? Really? What did she have to say? Roman made a mistake. Have you ever in your life made a mistake? He has had to live in exile, cannot travel freely, has paid for his mistake in more ways than one. From what I understand, he supported the young woman in question until she turned 21. Many celebrities in the '60s and '70s were having sex with underage woman... they just never got caught. 3 of them were having sex with Charlie Taco's daughter Nicole and got her pregnant at age 13. The baby was put up for adoption and recently contacted me asking questions about her birth mother who is now deceased.
I'm not saying it was Okay for Roman to have had sex with a minor, I'm just saying he has already paid the price. He was offered a "deal" the same as Linda Kasabian was, problem is the D.A. and Judge went back on their word. We protect our friends. I shall always stand up for Roman. When I first met Jay he had been dating my 15 year old girlfriend. She introduced us at her 'Sweet 16' party hosted in his home (EASTON DRIVE) with her mother in attendance.
unknown: "3 is the reason your quiet is so deep is because of the way that careless little free martin talked in his 1984 interview with a Clive Owen? regarding his friends in hollywood having a hermetical 'seal'(at least leading up to the murders) that would IMPLICITLY connect your husband and BEATTY--- and judging from her meltdown Farrow as well regarding the 'whodunit' aspects?"
~S~ You can barely string a coherent sentence together. Warren Beatty is my daughter's god-father, Roman Polanski is her sister's godfather. My husband is dead, so you best leave him out of this.
Perhaps your time on the Internet would best be used to learn about apostrophes!
Hi Sharmagne, thanks for your comments here. I'm researching Abigail Folger--and of course by extension, Voytek-- and would like to ask if you had any recollections of Abigail and Voytek, or photos you may wish to share. Many thanks.
Sharmagne Leland-St. John-Sylbert said:
When one is interrogated for 6 hours by 2 detectives trying to find the murderer of 2 of your friends and you are accused of being a witch by other so called friends, and they say witchcraft was involved, it feels as if you are a "prime" suspect
I won't be unsympathetic and say "who cares what it feels like ?", but that is not what your Facebook entry stated. Funny thing is, we wouldn't have had nearly 7 years of trans~Atlantic friction, if that is what you had said.
THey treated me as if they thought I had committed the murders...being Jay's girlfriend leads one to believe maybe it was a jealousy murder
I can't even give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. How many jealous girlfriends would massacre 5 people, including 3 men and a pregnant woman and someone totally unconnected with the house ? It's hard to believe the police thought you'd shinnied up the telegraph pole and cut the wires.....
When I was told that Manson had been on the property the day before Sharon left for Europe, I was told that he was looking for someone in the guest house
And ?
That's not even accurate, that he was looking for someone in the guest house, but the issue isn't what you believed, it's what you stated as fact.
I repeat what I said back in 2016, "And if all you were doing was repeating on your page what 'the Sylberts' told you, then shame on you because if your second last paragraph about being a suspect is true, you should be writhing with embarrassment for ever posting that stuff. You accuse Bugliosi of leaving out so many facts; well, you left in so many things that are not facts."
It's clear to anyone that can read {even Unknown !!} that you have stated some things as facts, been called out on them, and haven't the stones nor dignity to hold your hand up and say "OK, I was wrong to say that."
People have admitted to being wrong all over this blog ~ and guess what ? They don't get jailed, executed or exiled ! They get respected.
I just assumed it was garretson. since that was the only person I ever heard mentioned in connection with the guest house
You claim Jay was your boyfriend and two of the victims were your friends, but never heard that the owner of the house, Rudi Altobelli, lived in the guest house ?
OK.
I hope your son doesn't turn out to be as obnoxious as you are!
I hope your daughter developed into the kind of woman that can admit she's been wrong when she so clearly has.
Unlike her Mum.
Touché ?
Sharmagne Leland-St. John-Sylbert said...
You can barely string a coherent sentence together
Perhaps your time on the Internet would best be used to learn about apostrophes!
Even I am with you on that one !! 😂
💝
https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=DS19690818.2.43&e=-------en--20--1--txt-txIN--------1
I never knew that these 4 guys (original suspects) were being sought after in my neck of the woods. Interesting if not intregal
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