Tuesday, June 19, 2012

Life with Father
Monday, Feb. 15, 1971
Time Magazine

The trial of Charles Manson and his tribe was from the beginning like a species of absurdist theater.  The defense, in effect, was no defense at all. The lawyers representing Manson and the three women charged with the Sharon Tate and LaBianca murders had no outside witnesses to help their case. The attorneys were afraid to put the women on the stand, believing that they would take full responsibility for the killings in order to absolve Manson.

Thus the defense rested without bringing any of the accused to the stand within the jurors' hearing; all four were found guilty of first-degree murder. Curiously, it was only last week, when the court reconvened for a jury trial to determine punishment,* that the defense began probing into the backgrounds of Manson's cultists, trying to suggest to the jury the psychological force that bound them to him.

At stake now is the question of life sentences v. the death penalty. The defense tried to sow some doubts in the minds of an essentially middle-class jury that could only find the Manson tribe and its life-style as incomprehensible as''its crimes. Women like Patricia Krenwinkel, Leslie Van Houten and Susan Atkins, the defense meant to show, could have been the jurors' own daughters.
Joseph Krenwinkel, 59, a stocky life insurance agent from Inglewood, described his daughter as a gentle child who loved animals, was once a Camp Fire Girl, sang in church choirs and attended summer Bible school. Then one day in 1967, said Krenwinkel, Pat abandoned her car in a parking lot, left two paychecks uncollected at the insurance office where she worked and, at age 19, disappeared with a man named Charlie Manson. A week later, from Seattle, she sent her father a letter: "For the very first time in my life, I have found inner contentment and inner peace. I love you very much. Take good care of yourself."

Jane Van Houten told much the same story about her daughter Leslie, a Camp Fire Girl, who took up the sousaphone in the sixth grade, was a homecoming princess at Monrovia High School. She even showed a picture of Leslie in her Halloween ballerina costume. "It was an outfit with a pink tutu," said Mrs. Van Houten, "and she got sick and couldn't go out on Halloween, so she wore it all the time she was in bed." In the summer of 1968, when she was 19, Leslie phoned her mother "to say that she was going to drop out and that I would not be hearing from her."
Riding the Wind. Next, the defense began calling upon other members of the Manson "family" to describe their lives with him. The object was to portray Manson as a benign figure. Lynette Alice Fromme, 22, a small, freckled girl nicknamed "Squeaky," said that she first met Manson when her father, an aeronautical engineer, kicked her out of the house in Redondo Beach. In Venice, Calif., Squeaky said, "I was sitting down crying and a man walked up and said, 'Your father kicked you out of the house, did he?' And that was Charlie." She joined his nomadic tribe. "We were riding on the wind," she said. "Charlie is a man, and we were all looking for a man who would be at our feet in his love but would not let us step on him. Charlie was a father who knew that it is good to make love, and makes love with love, but not with evil and guilt."
Squeaky described the tribe's radically unordered life: "You could say it's a nonsense world of Alice in Wonderland, but it makes a lot of sense. Everybody makes their own rules . . . Each moment is different." One day, she said, a family member named Mary Brunner "had her baby in this old condemned house and we delivered it. We called him Sunstone Hawk, because at the time she had him, the sun was just rising, and a hawk flew over the house."

Another follower, Nancy Pitman, 19, described Manson's almost Franciscan mysticism. "Animals would come around him a lot," she testified. Once she saw him pet a rattlesnake and bring a dead bird back to life.



Sandy Good, 27, who was raised in a wealthy San Diego family, said: "The energy in that man you have not seen. I believe his voice could shatter this building."

The dilemma of the defense lawyers is that the women convicted of murder with Manson will be equally devoted should they take the stand, possibly starting this week. There is speculation that eventually both Paul Fitzgerald and Maxwell Keith, lawyers for Krenwinkel and Van Houten, will turn on Manson in their summary arguments and claim that the women were victims of Manson's will. Even though the women have already been convicted, the lawyers may, through an argument of "diminished capacity," try to save them from death sentences. On the other hand, if the women do try to absolve Manson by claiming all of the guilt for themselves, that in itself might be an illustration of Manson's weird hold over them.

* In capital cases, California and four other states require two trials—one to determine guilt or innocence and a second to set punishment. Thus twelve citizens, rather than a single judge, assume the responsibility for assigning a death penalty.

73 comments:

katie8753 said...

This is an interesting article. Keep in mind it was written BEFORE the punishment phase was completed. Take yourself back in time before you even knew they were given the death penalty.

The attorneys for the girls were desperate for a defense. There really wasn't one. Their clients were chomping at the bit to put all the guilt on themselves to save their "diminutive ex-con" messiah from the death penalty.

So who else are they going to ask to testify on their behalf other than their own parents? Former high school friends weren't going to stand up for them. They were probably in shock, shaking their heads.

And what parent wouldn't try to save their child. So the jury just wasn't buying it.

Charlie likes to opine that he didn't get a defense, but what defense was there for him? Who in the world would testify on his behalf other than his minions, and the jury had already seen through all of that. Even Charlie's mother said he was nuts.

katie8753 said...

I wrote a thread on this jury a while back, and I have to tell you...my hat is off to them.

They were sequestered for months to serve their civic duty. For months, they watched the defendants mock death, mock the justice system, mock them, they knew of the death threats to not only the judge and attorneys, but to themselves.

For months, day after day, they endured this crap. Kanarek objecting to every single thing which delayed the proceedings for probably weeks.

They watched Pat's & Leslie's parents get up and whine about how they were good girls, girl scouts, etc.

And all the while, all the other girls who weren't in jail were crawling to the courthouse, making a spectacle of themselves, bellowing Charlie's nonsensical talk. What a freak show.

If ANY of the defendants in that trial claim they didn't get a defense, the ONLY one they can blame is the one they see when they look in the mirror.

That's where they fucked up. Can't go back and re-do. No re-do's. It's already done.

Now they want everyone just to forget their ridiculous behavior and pretend they're nice. Doesn't work that way.

katie8753 said...

I can guarantee you that Pat, Leslie & Susan all thought that Charlie was gonna save them.

They thought they'd get off. Then when they got the death penalty, they thought that Charlie would get them off that too. Like breathing into a dead bird.

Well, he tried. He used Squeaky, Sandy & Gypsy so much they probably squeak when they walk. The Hawthorne robbery didn't work.

Is there anything on these Tex tapes? I doubt it. Why? Because Tex is an accomplished liar. Not as good as Casey Anthony, but pert near close.

Tex was lying long before he met Charles Manson. In fact, Tex was lying to Charles Manson. Shock..right?

And what does this mean about our baby-killing Tex? Well I still think that Charlie told him to kill.

But, that's another thread.

katie8753 said...

Okay on the lighter side, here are some Seinfeld bloopers.

I just LOVE that Kramer on the Merv Griffin Set. HA HA!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqrTZdWJU7s&feature=related

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

The Miami Heat just beat Oklahoma City again...

I'm so disappointed.

Miami -3
OKC -1

I don't think any team has ever come back to win the NBA finals, down 3-1.
It's basically over...

On a lighter note:
Lebron was injured late in the game.
With LeBron sidelined, OKC could have a shot. LOL

I think it's all smoke and mirrors though..
My prediction is that Lebron will be healthy as a horse in 48 hours.

katie8753 said...

Okay if no one else is going to comment, I'll continue. HA HA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9H3qPqJ3uI

This is an old gospel song. Farther Along.

Linda Ronstadt, Emmy Lou & Dolly!

Good, good stuff. Yeah.

Okay night night. :)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

It's supposed to be a record-breaking 100 degrees in Boston the next 3 days.

Whew! LOL

I'll take sunshine over snow ANY day though!

katie8753 said...

Well I'll say this about that.

Everything in the house requires a "AA" battery. That's why I made it a mission to buy every "AA" battery in the world. I've amassed a horde of "AA" batteries in my lifetime.

So it's a wonder when I go to turn on the main remote (I have 4) to turn on the TV it doesn't work, and there are no more "AA" batteries.

I ask the kids "did you take those". "No".

I guess the "AA" battery thieves came in and did a creepy crawl.

leary7 said...

I sincerely hope Katie and Lynyrd aren't offended by this, but I have begun to accept that the Manson story has been seriously beaten to death, no pun intended.
We can try and infuse mystery and subterfuge into it, but in the cold light of dawn it was just a bunch of zonked out idiots bored with their love games and deciding to play war.
Haight Ashbury was NOT a social movement or any kind of cultural apex - it was just a bunch of drug addled idiots perpetuating their adolescense under the guise of "free love". Some good music came out of it, but not much else. And the Manson family was just an extention of that, cept when Charlie realized he wasn't going to be invited to the big kids music table he decided on "blood atonement" as payback.
Two new books out, eh? I guess there is an endless thirst for gore and hippie chicks.
But unless Mary or Clem or Ruth Ann or someone of that ilk decides to "let it all hang out" I really don't see much happening in the next few years. Bruce getting out would change that, but it ain't gonna happen. And Charlie dying and deciding to have a public funeral would be a gas and a half. I am still rooting for that. Anything you guys are rooting for to spice things up???

Mrstormsurge said...

Lynyrd, here's a Miami Heat fan giving some "heat" to the Celtics and OKC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRQ41yvToKA

MrPoirot said...

Notice how Charlie didn't get Krenwinkle to give him her car and paychecks. He hadn't perfected his hippie Ponzi scheme yet.

beauders said...

leary, what are the two new books?

katie8753 said...

>>>Notice how Charlie didn't get Krenwinkle to give him her car and paychecks. He hadn't perfected his hippie Ponzi scheme yet.>>>

HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! that is the funniest thing I've heard yet! HA HA.

leary7 said...

my bad, beauders, I forgot which thread I was on. I think I was refering to the new one on the Eternal Brotherhood and maybe the Statman book.
but I just got a case of the summer blahs...every movie I see sucks and so on. This thing about Tex and the tapes is bound to be much ado about nothing, and the fact that we are now at the point where we debate Watson's capacity for truthfulness is a pretty strong signal to me that there is not much more or new to say about TLB. I wish there were. As I said, I wish some of the major players would talk, but it looks like everyone is taking their clue from Charlie and bound and determined to not share with the world anymore. Manson not showing up for his hearing, Bruce calling in sick. Bobby tightening his website and so on. Everyone seems in a shutdown mode - obviously self-preservation, but we still hope for someone to feel the need to purge. Anyone?

katie8753 said...

Leary I agree with you. We've pretty much said all there is to say 1000's of times. We're basically down to just repeating ourselves over and over.

And these new books don't reveal anything. It's just somebody else's opinion of what happened. There's no proof offered ever. It's just someone's conjecture.

I wish something WOULD be on those tapes that might give us a clue about motive, bodies, etc. but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

leary7 said...

yeah, that's the nuts of it Katie. as usual you hit the nail on the head. We all BELIEVE there is more to the story, but with each passing year it looks more and more like what history will be left with is the Bug's fairy tale and a bunch of youtube snippets. I seriously doubt Charlie or Tex could tell the truth even if they wanted to...but it sure would be cool to get some frank talk from Bruce and Clem and Mary and a couple of others. Maybe Grogan would talk, maybe it's just that nobody has approached him.
Of course another trial would be the balls. Who wouldn't love to see Tex on trial for another murder, one which he could get the death penalty he so deserves. It just shocks me there isn't a young asst D.A. in Cal that doesn't see that as a Vincent-like path to fame and fortune. I forget, was Tex ever tried for Shorty's death??? He was there, in the car, I am pretty sure of that. If it is the cost of another trial that would be the stumbling block, get the Folger family to make a donation. And I am sure some network (hello Oprah) would pay big bucks to telecast it. Talk about your reality show bonanza - the Family is a helluva lot more interesting than those morons on Jersey Shore.

leary7 said...

Those tapes.....
I have refrained from entering that conversation, but wouldn't it have been incumbant of the lawyer Boyd or whatever his name was to come forth with information about other murders? Doesn't that supercede the attorney-client privlidge thing? Am I nuts? Don't answer that. Ofr maybe it is just that they have to come forward if they have PRIOR knowledge of a crime that is to be committed. Yeah, maybe that is it. If Mr. Dill is around maybe he can weigh in. But I just can't believe that Watson's attorney would have just sat on any bitg info all these years, not to mention the writer who was given access to them while helping Tex write his book. I just don't think there can be anything there.

Dilligaf said...

Leary,

Tex's attorney would have been required by law to report any crime that Watson was currently involved in committing, or any future impending crime. Because the murders had already occurred, they were not an ongoing crime, not even as conspiracy. While an Officer of the Court he was sworn to uphold the laws and interests of the State of California, that duty does not supercede his clients' interests, even unsolved crimes of the past.

katie8753 said...

Leary it would be so nice if ANY of the former family members ever talked. But they won't. Why? Probably several reasons.

They've gone on with their lives and don't want to "outted" by having to testify.

If they had anything to do with murder AT ALL, they could be charged and tried too.

If Bruce does get out, I guarantee you that he won't say a word about Pugh or Zero, 2 victims I feel sure he axed. Why? Because he could be charged and tried. Same with Grogan, Tex, Bobby or any of the others.

katie8753 said...

Thanks Dill! That's what I was thinking.

I, for one, am sick of these books coming out with all these new theories about the murders.

There is no evidence that Rosemary was dealing drugs. And as far as I know, she wasn't selling wigs.

There is no evidence that Abigail knew Linda K.

There is no evidence that Voytek OR Jay were dealing drugs. Period.

There is no evidence that the family bought drugs in Hawaii.

And as far as all these "video tapes" and "pictures" taken at Cielo Drive are concerned, they seem to have only been viewed by a "chosen few". No evidence they even exist at all.

So people can dream shit up all they want, but we're still only back to square one in the end.

katie8753 said...

Well Jerry Sandusky's jury went to deliberations today.

I can't imagine that they will find him guilty. I'm glad I'm not on that jury. A reasonable doubt.....

Why did it take these guys so long to say anything? I saw on the news today that one of Jerry's adopted kids now says that he abused him. Why now???? Why not say something then???

Sigh......

katie8753 said...

Oh, by the way, did I tell you all about my 7 year plan?

Well, I plan to grow more in the garden, you know vegetables and plants and stuff.

And then I plan to meet a nice eligible bachelor, you know, the kind that has money, that's not attached to a wife or mother, and the kind that will give me the attention I need. Back rubs, dental massages, "down there stuff"....

And he better have a nice house...not the crummy shack kinda house, but the big 5-bedroom, 4-bath kinda house in a plushy part of the country. You know, where I can't be too hot or too cold. With a hot tub....

And then I plan to go to college and take some courses. Not too hard, you know, some cushy courses where I don't have to add stuff up or figure out the world's shit problems.

And I plan to put on 10 pounds if I can, maybe dye my hair red because I'm Irish, paint my nails a fuchsia color and get a tattoo. You know...not a tattoo that really shows...maybe on my butt cheek.

And then I'll zoom in on the TLB case and find out once and for all if Charlie actually wears diapers or if that's only another supposition by new writers.

I'll work on getting to see prisoners. Maybe giving Charlie a hug while he whispers in my ear "think about yer Daddy". HA HA

And then on to Bruce to hear him say "Amen brotha. Peace and the cross, and I never said "the guilt is in you".

And then on to baby-killing Tex. HA HA. Yes Tex Watson. I'll ask him to explain why he killed a bunch of strangers.

He can't say that "cuz God said", unless he's referring to Charlie. LOL

beauders said...

katie, when a child is sexually abused they think they are the only one and they are to blame. also for boys it usually feels good to a certain degree, so they feel guilt and are fearful they have been 'made gay.' when others come out as being abused especially by the same disgusting jerk it's easier to tell your story. it's like in the parole hearing for the tate/labianca inmates mrs. tate made it easier for all the family's of the victims to participate in the hearings. mrs. tate was a class act and she truly has changed the prison experiences of these inmates. for example davis and watson would probably still be married but because of thier conjugal rights were taken away their marriages failed.

katie8753 said...

Hey Bub...what's all the hubbub????

HA HA

Groove on this:

Sorry Charlie, you're too late. You can't take credit for this one.

Love Rules:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGxsQtElB4M&list=FLP59i4xh8VcH0FGLZJ92Mbg&index=11&feature=plpp_video

katie8753 said...

Sorry Beauders, I don't agree. Children are ALL different. One child will endure what another won't.

It only takes one child to tell.

That one child didn't. If several children are molested, at least one child will tell. It's a matter of statistics.

I find that suspect.

katie8753 said...

My generation didn't start the fire:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g&feature=autoplay&list=FLP59i4xh8VcH0FGLZJ92Mbg&playnext=5

Did NOT start the fire!! HA HA

starship said...

I post this because if you read it all the way you'll find that the attorney-client privilege thing is supposed to be taken pretty seriously, at least in this state. Don't know if Tex's lawyer was subject to the same deal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Garrow

Venus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

Thanks Starship. That's interesting. I looked into Texas' attorney/client privilege and I think it's similar to what you have. It basically says the privilege stands unless there is a danger of "current or future" harm/death to anyone.

It's basically what Dill said I think.

katie8753 said...

Venus I'm so sorry to hear about your abuse. I know years ago, it was SO easy to get away with abuse because it was such a secret shame. People just didn't want to talk about it. Times have changed though. It's more open now than it was way back then.

As far as Sandusky goes, I think the guy is definitely looney tunes and certainly exhibited bad behavior, but I just don't know how much more I believe. Some of these victims have changed their stories a few times, and there are STILL alleged victims popping up. I can't figure that one out. Why would they wait until AFTER the jury went into deliberations.

One of the mothers of a victim told a neighbor that she was going to have a really nice country home when she got through with Sandusky. That sounds like a greedy gus to me.

I'm just glad I don't have to make the decision about his guilt or innocence. I think that they will acquit him of some counts, probably not all.

Venus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

Yeah Venus, you're right. I think he'll be found guilty of something. Or it will be another "Casey Anthony bloodbath". HA HA.

I have seen instances where a woman will lie about a man raping her, just to get back at him. There was a football player who was sent to prison who was accused of rape, and he was recently released because the girl admitted she made it up.

I'll tell you what. If a woman lies about something like that then later recants it, SHE should be in prison. That's pathetic.

I'm sorry that abuse is still bothering you. It's deplorable that some pervert would take away a child's innocence!!!

Venus said...

Thank you, Katie. Believe me, I went through nothing like what these accusers are alleging. But it still never goes away.

I'm going to delete my posts about it tho, just because it might've been TMI.

Oh, Casey Anthony.......You and I could talk for hours about that travesty of justice.

katie8753 said...

Yes Venus, the Casey Anthony debate could wage on for a long, long time. LOL.

I hear she's now going to write a book. Like she can write. Get outta here. She's having a hard time shopping it though. Publishers are still lukewarm about trying to market her. They'll be black-balled.

katie8753 said...

You know, when you talk about child molestation, I think about what happened to Ruth Ann and Dianne Lake. Those poor kids didn't have a chance. They were born to demented parents who handed them over on a silver platter to Charles Manson.

Not to mention all the children that Clem molested and fondled at the ranch and he was never prosecuted for that.

I just hope that they have all recovered from such a nightmare.

MrPoirot said...

The Penn State athletic program was an enabler that Sandusky used to access children. The NCAA should give the death penalty to the Nittany Lion football Program.

katie8753 said...

Well Sandusky was found guilty on almost all counts. He could spend the rest of his life in prison.

leary7 said...

As someone whose favorite cousin Robbie was molested by a priest, and Robbie later committed suicide as a teen, the Sandusky verdict is a great blessing. But honestly, I was even more cheered by the conviction of the Catholic Bishop in Philly who was convicted yesterday not of abuse but of protecting/enabling the abuse.
Since 1995 there have been over 11,000 charges against 3,500 priests in the USA. And over in Ireland, since the 70's it has been determined that one of four Catholic boys have been abused.
And yet, AND YET, people continue to see it as happenstance, as isolated and individual acts.
THe elephant in the room that no one talks about and the Catholic Church will deny to the end is that the abuse and acceptance of pedophiles in the priesthood was systemic and institutional. It was the "price to be paid" for maintaining celibacy. And trust me, it remains prevelant among many MANY in the Catholic heirarchy despite their so-called reforms.
I am elated at the Sandusky verdict, but want the assholes who protected him and covered up just as bad.

leary7 said...

yeah Katie, I would love to know if after all these years if Ruth Ann or Diane see themselves as victims of child abuse. Obviously Ruth Ann was not forced, but the definition of child abuse includes the coercion of an adult over an impressionable child. Charlie certainly did his share of coercion.
And you have to wonder if Donkey Dan or Bruce or any of the guys had reservations then or today have remorse over having sex with underage girls. Most likely they just saw it as the "free love" thing.
Like most 'normal' folk (and hopefully most posters here) for the life of me I cannot fathom the pleasure of having sex with a child. It is like kicking a puppy. It is so inherantly wrong it just boggles the mind how so many people are drawn to it. Makes me sick to my stomach.

A.C. Fisher Aldag said...

That is why the Catholic Church should lose its 501-c-3 tax exemption as a religious organization and have all its assets seized... it's just a front for organized crime. Add to the sexual abuse, the money laundering, the misogyny, destruction of indigenous and Pagan cultures, backing wars for two thousand years, the most recent being supporting Hitler in WWIi, and other crimes against humanity, the Catholic Church is one of the worst criminal organizations in human history. It should be banned, disbanded, and destroyed.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Yeah, AC... but you gotta give us an "A" for resiliency. LOL

6,000 wars, 2,000 molestations and 5 trillion gallons of wine under the bridge... and we're still goin' strong!!!

AHahahahaha

Dilligaf said...

Wow A.C.

I'd hate to read what you think about the Presbytarians... ;)

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Janet Evans (40) is actually trying-out for the US Olympic swim team this week... and the experts say, she actually has a fighting chance at making the team.
She (I believe) last competed in 1988!

How freakin' COOL is that?!

There's hope for all us old farts yet! LOL

I just think that's SO cool.

GO JANET!

katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
katie8753 said...

AC, please.

If you want to talk about pagans, talk about your own kind....

katie8753 said...

And last, but certainly not least, Leary there were many, many young girls molested at Charlie's camp, by Charlie and others.

They won't charge them for it like they charged Sandusky. Why? Because they didn't know they were supposed to. They weren't urged by DA's office.

Too bad.

Maybe Clem would have been buried by the charge, and certainly Charlie.

or Charles as some call him. HA HA.

MrPoirot said...

Sadie was one of the most dispicable child molestors in the Family. She committed unspeakable acts upon her own son which she never made any effort to atone for in prison. She never even mentioned her disgusting treatment of her son while incacerated as if her son being taken from her negated any remorse she should have had. Some of the girls in the Family I could get a grasp of as far as their mental state but not Sadie. She seemed depraved beyond even her own rough upbringing.

katie8753 said...

Prediction: Now there will be 100's of "victims" of Jerry Sandusky coming out of the woodwork because Penn State will be writing blank checks to shut them up.

leary7 said...

I don't know, Katie. I think I am going to somewhat disagree with you on that one. I don't think Sandusky was a prolific pedophile. As ridiculous as this sounds, it seems like he was somewhat discreet - he wasn't out cruising playgrounds and malls and street corners. Of course the numbers don't matter, the abuse of one child should keep the scum in jail for life.
And maybe Mr. Dill can weigh in on this but I am not sure how exactly Penn State would be culpable unless the abuse took place on University property. If, for example, Sandusky abused a cabana boy while on vacation in Florida, how would Penn State be liable for that?
Great point on Sadie, Mr. P. She was truly depraved. Hard to reconcile her Family persona with the soft spoken Christian persona she later adopted. While she was at Sybil Brand she apparently got the rep of fastest tongue in the west, willing to go down on any and all. Just from a psych standpoint I wonder if she lived a chaste life in prison after getting religion.

katie8753 said...

Hi Leary. I know there are suits already filed against Penn State. Supposedly the higher ups tried to protect Sandusky by hiding certain info. I think that's why they are liable. Plus some abuse did occur in the shower room at the campus.

What I meant by more accusers showing up is that this is a great bandwagon to jump on for unscrupulous people. Anyone who had a son that attended Penn State during this time period can claim that he was abused and stick their hand out for some hush money.

And knowing how greedy people can be, I'd bet my bottom dollar it will happen.

katie8753 said...

I read in the paper today that Penn State is already planning to "pay people off". They have certain funds that have been set aside for the payoffs.

And of course, that will make their tuition go up next year, so everyone loses anyway.

leary7 said...

Okay Katie, good points, but my gut says different. Let's wager an ehchilada dinner and a case of Shiner Bok on an over/under. Besides the 8 victims already involved and the son, I think the additional victim suits will be under 5.
Yeah, some sanctimonious soul will critisize citing bad taste - betting on the number of victims - but what is a blog for if not healthy disagrements and challenges.
We need more dancing and betting here Lynyrd.

leary7 said...

What about the best movie dancing scene? I am going with Kevin Costner and Susan Sarandon at the end of Bull Durham.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Leary said:
"We need more dancing and betting here Lynyrd".

I Agree!
: )

katie8753 said...

Okay Leary, I'll see your case of Shiner & Enchilada dinner, and raise you a case of Dom Perignon and a Prime Rib feast that there will be MORE than 5 new "victims".

And my favorite dance team of all time would have to be Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I liked the little girl who played "Baby" with Patrick Swayze.
What was the name of that movie again?
I think it was "Dirty Dancing".

She wasn't exactly beautiful (facially)... but there was just somethin' very sexy about that chick.

She had what I call: "overall attractiveness".

With some girls... you can't really put a finger on one attribute which stands-out... but collectively, they're simply an attractive package.
Lynn Fromme is one of those girls (for me), as well.

The chick from "Dirty Dancin" had great legs and ass though... LOLOL
THAT was obvious!
I could definitely put a finger on those attributes! LOL
(Come to think of it... Fromme did too).

Come to think of it... maybe I should just change my "overall attractiveness category", to the "great legs and ass, with average face category". : )

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

OK...
After this, we have to do the "best topless dance movie scene!
Ahahahaha

Bad idea though... since I can't actually recall any topless dancing movie scenes...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I see a couple deleted comments here today...

Katie...

Was there (shall we say) a momentary lapse in cordiality last night?

LOL ; )

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Seriously folks...

Do I deserve a medal for patience, or what?!

AHahahaha

katie8753 said...

NEWMAN!! HA HA.

Shak El said...

I agree with A.C. the Catholic Church at a minimum has engaged in modern times in organized criminal behavior that could get it charged under RICO. It knowingly moved pedophile priests across state lines to avoid prosecution for decades.

katie8753 said...

Shak El, thanks for your comment.

I think to impune an entire religion based on the antics of certain of its parishioners is kinda "out there".

I'm not Catholic but I think that by and large the faith is probably made up of people who really care.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

I've known some really good Catholics... and, I've known some really bad ones.

I could say the same about any group I've encountered in my lifetime... and that's across the board... whether that group be defined by religion, race, gender, sexual orientation, or anything else...

There's good and bad in all groups.
No matter how you slice it... if you put enough people together... you're always gonna get some assholes.
There's just no way around it.

Case in point:
Jesus (originally) chose only 12 apostles... and one betrayed him.

Let's do the math:
One in twelve apostles turned-out to be an asshole... or 8.3%.
8.3% of Jesus' original chosen group was an asshole.
Given human nature... that's actually a pretty small percentage.

Now... let's convert that figure (concept) to todays present situation:

"There are approximately 1.1 billion Roman Catholics in the world (with some additional 240 million Eastern Orthodox). That makes Roman Catholics, by an overwhelming margin, the largest “denomination” of any religion on the planet. No other Christian “denomination” comes anywhere close to comparing.

Seriously folks...
If you really think you can put together a group of 1.1 Billion people... and not have a few assholes or bad decisions included... you're living a complete fantasy. LOL

Anyway... now for the hard figures:
If only 8.3% of the 1.1 Billion present-day Catholics were assholes (a pretty small percentage actually)... that would be 91,300,000 Asholes! (That's Ninety one million, three hundred thousand assholes)
That's at a low 8.3% asshole margin.

When you get 1.1 BILLION people together... of course you're going to get millions of assholes.

How long have you folks lived on this fucking earth?

Put 20 people together... you're going to get some assholes.
Lynyrd personally guarantees it! LOL
Get into billions of people... and you're talking about a LOT of jerks and bad decisions.
It's simple math and logic. LOL

Peace...

PS:
Let's be frank... any large group is always an easy target for ridicule.

And that... as Forrest gump says... is all I have to say about that! : )

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

How 'bout that Miami Heat?! LOLOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Leary... for future reference, religion is always a bad starting point!
LOL

Last time I made a political joke "8/9 Baby" never came back...

Religion and politics... always a bad move.

Ironically... I tend to agree with AC politically.
Go figure?

MrPoirot said...

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...
I've known some really good Catholics... and, I've known some really bad ones.

I could say the same about any group I've encountered in my lifetime... and that's across the board... whether that group be defined by religion, race, gender, sexual orientation, or anything else...

There's good and bad in all groups.
No matter how you slice it... if you put enough people together... you're always gonna get some assholes.
There's just no way around it.

Case in point:
Jesus (originally) chose only 12 apostles... and one betrayed him.

Let's do the math:
One in twelve apostles turned-out to be an asshole... or 8.3%.
8.3% of Jesus' original chosen group was an asshole.
Given human nature... that's actually a pretty small percentage.

Now... let's convert that figure (concept) to todays present situation:

"There are approximately 1.1 billion Roman Catholics in the world (with some additional 240 million Eastern Orthodox). That makes Roman Catholics, by an overwhelming margin, the largest “denomination” of any religion on the planet. No other Christian “denomination” comes anywhere close to comparing.

Seriously folks...
If you really think you can put together a group of 1.1 Billion people... and not have a few assholes or bad decisions included... you're living a complete fantasy. LOL

Anyway... now for the hard figures:
If only 8.3% of the 1.1 Billion present-day Catholics were assholes (a pretty small percentage actually)... that would be 91,300,000 Asholes! (That's Ninety one million, three hundred thousand assholes)
That's at a low 8.3% asshole margin.

When you get 1.1 BILLION people together... of course you're going to get millions of assholes.

How long have you folks lived on this fucking earth?

Put 20 people together... you're going to get some assholes.
Lynyrd personally guarantees it! LOL
Get into billions of people... and you're talking about a LOT of jerks and bad decisions.
It's simple math and logic. LOL

Peace...

PS:
Let's be frank... any large group is always an easy target for ridicule.

And that... as Forrest gump says... is all I have to say about that! : )

June 24, 2012 11:29 PM
[end quote]

Poirot replies:

Interesting that Lynyrd uses the number 8.9 percent. I have read that 8 to 9 percent of teachers in the US are pedophiles. After all, if a person is a pedophile wouldn't that type of person typically choose professions where there is a lot of contact with children. Conversely if you look at coal miners the percentage of pedophiles is much lower in that profession since there is little opportunity to sexually abuse children in a coal mine.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

Is it just me, or is that Rachael Ray lady smokin' HOT?! LOL

Damn...
She's just so "bubbly"!
I'd love to eat her lasagna!
Ahahahaha

starship said...

Yes, I believe Leary is unfairly singling out the culture of the Roman Catholic Church because I believe we shall begin to see that many children have been abused through public and private non-denomination schools as well. Religion and socio-economics have nothing to do with it. The Horace Mann School in the Bronx being a latest example.

starship said...

And I am pretty sure the number of assholes on the Miami Heat number more than 8.3%.

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

As Always...
Starship is correct on all counts.

I believe the "asshole ratio" regarding the Miami Heat, easily approaches 80-90%. LOL

LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...

BTW...

What's up with those ridiculous black horn-rimmed glasses that all the NBA players wear during post-game interviews now?

Do all these young Afro-American athletes suddenly go blind after each game... or, is this some kind of new ridiculous fashion statement?

ZZ Top LeBron?
WTF?

starship said...

Hi, Lynyrd,

Yes, I have to live with my son talking trash...he loves King James. Not the Bible version. Also I hear today Ray Allen may become one of the heat as well.