A Letter Bill Nelson wrote to Susan Atkins, the day he left the case, and closed his website.
Nelson tried vehemently to convince law enforcement, that Bruce Davis was the Zodiac killer. At one time, he also led police out to Barker Ranch to dig for bodies.
The Letter:
Dear Susan Atkins,
I have left the case behind me, no longer interested in the Manson saga of murder, deceptions, deceit, and demonology. My web site was taken down on January 23, 2000. I sold off my vast library. After 11 years, I have reclaimed my life and my wife is thrilled. Sandra Good with her live-in loony St. George (named after the street that intersects at the LaBianca house?) pulled out all the stops to destroy me, defame me, and ruin my reputation.
You and I spent some nine plus hours together. We shared, laughed, and you cried. We called one another "Brother" and "Sister" in a bond of love and respect. I sent you several letters after your husband James decided that we should not see each other. They went unanswered. I understand.
I have sold several copies of your 12-28-00-parole hearing. It was such a disgrace! There were so many lies told by James regarding you. I was saddened to hear him even quote the deceased Patti Tate that you have progressed very well inside prison – but he neglected to add: "And right here is where she should spend the rest of her life!" He said none of the murders were done in an execution style. That is a lie. You should have heard the response of Dianne Lake (a really mature Christian in adult life) upon hearing that one. He bragged that you were never an alcoholic, but your records tell a different story. So did your book. He cited the "family" you had been living with as a proof of stability at the time of the crimes. Did you see the reaction of Stephen Kay at that one? Bragging that you had a stable family relationship i.e. the Manson Family? How insulting indeed. You killed because you were under such stress? Really now. Barbara Hoyt, who knew you well, says you were an evangelist for Manson in the same way that you are now for Jesus. It would take hours to cover all of the deception. You never missed much time from work assignments but then you were on medical disability for many months before the hearing. And…the most egregious action was your turning your back on Janet Parent when she identified herself. To think that James and you worked hard to keep her from voicing her opinion because you did not "actually kill Steven Parent" was quite unchristian. I could go on and on about that dreadful performance at your hearing by a tag team that would make the World Wide Wrestling Federation take lessons.
Remember your telling me the "new rendition" of the crimes? How Tex kicked you out of the Tate house in an argument and you were outside of the house when HE stabbed Sharon to death? Where was that rendition during your last hearing? It was not told because it simply was not true.
I am offended at your use of God while you continue to lie. How refreshing it would be to hear just one of you killers actually tell the truth. Not Bruce Davis, Charles Watson, Leslie, Pat, or you have ever told the full truth. You get three meals a day, medical treatment, dental, psyche, exercise, marriage, and you have done quite well by all of that. When you miss those warm and cuddly conjugal visits with James, think of Doris Tate and me. November 1, 1996 was the change in policy by the CDC. Thank God! It should never have been allowed for people who kill.
Your hearing was so uninteresting that Court TV did not even broadcast it. All of the money they invested, and they chose to take a pass. You see Susan, James was simply a boring, miserable failure. You want to know a little secret? That over weight Commissioner was the same person who voted to give Bruce M. Davis a release last year. That is right. Bruce got a yes vote, and the other two commissioners said that this year, they might agree. Manny left the BPT to become a police chief once again, so he will not be able to spring Bruce free. But! Bruce will walk very soon and he MAY start the killing again. He was involved in the Zodiac murders and I will take that evidence, my findings, and 11 years of research to my grave. When you admitted that you helped to cover up any blood evidence where Shorty was murdered, you gave us something that no one had put together before. You were personally involved with EVERY MURDER prosecuted. Gary Hinman, Tate/LaBianca and Shorty. Wow Susan! That is a really heavy thought. When you took Bugliosi to the back of the ranch by the stream, it was because that is where Shorty was killed. You know what Clem, Bruce, and Manson say? "We were driving down Santa Susanna Pass in the middle of the day when Shorty was hit over the head and they drug him from the car…" Barbara Hoyt submitted a letter refuting that alteration of the court record but the BPT buried her letter in the confidential section of the C-File for Davis. They did not even allow it read into evidence. So much for Perjury prosecutions in the Manson family, because the BPT does not care about TRUTH. These over paid, no nothing bureaucrats do not have a clue and none of you will tell them the truth, not even in the Name of Jesus.
Good bye my friend. I enjoyed our meetings. I never betrayed you following our visits, despite the lying tongue of Linda Mann and that other crazy lady who comes out to tape the hearings. I wish you Christian conviction – the conviction to finally speak up and tell the truth. And Susan, what was that about you being the only one to make restitution to any of the victim’s families financially? Please provide the proof for that one, because it just is not so. You gave nothing financially to Doris, I would be surprised if you gave any to Patti since she would have called it blood money and after all she turned down $50,000 from Guns and Roses. I know you gave nothing to the LaBianca family. It is for certain that you gave nothing to Janet Parent. Shorty has no relatives, and Gary Hinman’s mom and dad have passed away.
As I go - - - - Gypsy let me know in 1993 that she and you had been swimming at the Tate house before the murders, driving up there in the sports car of Dennis Wilson. Bugliosi asked Terry Melcher to confirm it or deny it….Terry told Mr. B. that it was true. I guess you forgot that interesting tidbit when we met for 9 plus hours and in subsequent letters.
Please do not continue to name Jesus as your redeemer when you refuse to tell the truth. You may be Born Again, it is not for me to judge, but you defame the name of Jesus by your misrepresentations. And no, I have no interest in hearing from little James. You traded in Manson for another control freak. The people who have seen the parole hearing tape have observed that. A little, condescending man like Charlie, hurtful, crude and so uninformed.
Sincerely,
Bill Nelson
04-24-01
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Bill Nelson in action, for those unfamiliar with him...
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"MANSON BEHIND THE SCENES" by Bill Nelson... Published 1997, 400 pages
"TEX WATSON; THE MAN THE MADNESS THE MANIPULATION"
Published 1991, 256 pages
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"TEX WATSON; THE MAN THE MADNESS THE MANIPULATION"
Published 1991, 256 pages
81 comments:
Wow. Nelson really ripped off a zinger to Sadie didn't he?
This letter reveals Nelson's rambling thought patterns that show up in his writings. I've always found his literary meanderings to be quite strange.
He probably knew more minutia on the TLB case than anyone but he had a tendency to misrepresent the truth much the same way as Sadie did. Nelson was a definantly a peculiar character in many ways.
liar,child molester,horrible writer
saint bill wore many hats before he shuffled off this mortal coil.
why is it that the folks who throw gods name around the most are the ones you should never trust?
As strange as Bill is, I have to agree with him on a couple of points.
Susan IS/WAS a liar, many times over, depending on which fit she needed...AND
Susan's claim to be "born again" was just a big joke.
Susan did claim to give financial restitution to family members (not sure which ones) but I'm wondering if THAT was even true.
"As I go - - - - Gypsy let me know in 1993 that she and you had been swimming at the Tate house before the murders, driving up there in the sports car of Dennis Wilson. Bugliosi asked Terry Melcher to confirm it or deny it….Terry told Mr. B. that it was true. I guess you forgot that interesting tidbit when we met for 9 plus hours and in subsequent letters."
Is that really true? Did Melcher admit to Bugliosi that it happened? If they swam in the pool at Cielo before the murders, was it during the time Melcher lived there or during the time Sharon and Roman rented the house?
consider the source.
Hi Carol. I believe that Beauders said that the girls swam in the pool when Dean Moorehouse was living there.
They definitely didn't swim there when the Polanskis lived there.
FYI, tonight at 9 p.m. (mountain time), MSNBC is airing the 1987 documentary MIND OF MANSON.
he was still a asshole!
Thanks Carol!!
In Susan's 1996 parole hearing, this was said by Susan:
>>>PRESIDING COMMISSIONER BENTLEY: now, what was your feeling when you got back after these murders at the Tate residence?
INMATE ATKINS: I went to the back. There were seven rooms at Spahn's Ranch, and I went into the back room, and I was alone, and I heard Charles Manson talking to Charles Watson, telling him that he had not done what he had told him to do, and that it wasn't finished, and at that point, I passed out.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER BENTLEY: What wasn't finished?
INMATE ATKINS: The murders were not finished. This was after the Tate, after all the people who had died at her house.>>>
Hmmm....fact...or fiction? HA HA.
"Nelson tried vehemently to convince law enforcement, that Bruce Davis was the Zodiac killer. At one time, he also led police out to Barker Ranch to dig for bodies."
So did Larry Melton.
There are so many rumours and misconceptions around this case that it´s nearly impossible to cut through the dark veil of fog that has followed these incidents already from the start.
Of course the sleazy tabloids and crime detective mags had a field day cash in on the deeds.
Here is a site of these publications.
Some of the headlines:
"Sharon gave Manson one hour of love for drugs."
"Sharon is alive, close friend sees her with Polanski in Brazil."
"What went on at the swinging party that led to mass murder."
"Charles Manson is illegitimate son of Adolf Hitler." And so on.
http://www.badmags.com/bmtate.html
V717, it's sad that Sharon's family had to wade through this barrage of garbage with the sensationalist mags at the time.
It's bad enough to have your child murdered, but to have her put thru the mill like that borders on hedonistic.
Bruce was not the Zodiac Killer.
Matt, you claim that Bill was a child molester. Do you have any proof?
Mr. P., I'm pretty sure that Bruce was not the Zodiac killer, but what evidence do we have that Bill Nelson was such a maniac?
He lived, breathed, and slept the Manson family.
Of course he was nuts.
But was he right about a lot of things?
It's scary to think about it.
Bill Nelson knew a lot of things that we don't.
He's dead now. So is Bret. Too much knowledge??? One has to wonder....
i've seen the court documents.
on september 23,1981 bill nelson was arrested in san diego california and charged with three felony counts in violation of penal code section 288a,lewd and lascivious conduct with a child under the age of fourteen.the female children involved were twelve years old
the trial was continued to april 5 1982 on that date nelson pleaded nolo contendre in a plea bargain to the misdeamenor offense of'annoying or molesting' a child(pc section 647a)in exchange for this plea the felony charges against him were dropped.
nelson was given two years probation and had to register as a sex offender.
this all came to light because nelson was stalking sandra good and george stimson if memory serves they did a little research and found the court documents on nelson and offered copies to the tate labianca research community (such that it was at the time) who nelson had a bad relationship with mostly because of his holier than thou posturing and questionable ethics (i.e. stalking).
back then in the late 90s nelson was a very divisive figure in tate labianca land many folks including myself had run ins with the man and saw for ourselves what a dick(sorry but thats the word that springs to mind)he was.
he used his website as a bully pulpit against anyone who disagreed with his point of view.
i recieved copies of the court records through james whitehouse but for the life of me i can't remember what he had to do with any of this. but whatever you think of whitehouse,good or stimson the documents were legit and the whole episode cut the legs out from under his website.
col scott could shed some light on this subject if hes still around i'm sure he'd remember the chain of events better than i do.
katie somewhere back in the comments of one the threads a few months back i gave you the link to whats left of nelsons website.
i don't know if you ever checked it out but theres still alot of material there just take what you find with a grain of salt.bill was'nt above stretching to truth to further his own agenda.
when we got into it over a few dollars he owed me he accused me of being a member of the family!
i said bill i was six years old in 1969
he said well you're one of them in spirit.
most of his zodiac-davis nonsense came from white rabbit same with the whole theres dead bodies at barker ranch lets dig 'em up fiasco.
off topic l/s did you see the canucks game the other day?
marchand really screwed up one there,talented guy but if he keeps up that nonsense someones gonna hurt him someday
Sandy and George didn't like Nelson's ability to find people who didn't want to be found. Sandy didn't mind being located if it was done her way. However she'd flip out at Nelson because he found her his way.
Some people made a lot about Nelson's sex offender status in order to discredit him but I never saw what that had to do with his manson obsession. Just like with Bugliosi; people tried to use his problems with a girlfriend to discredit his prosecution of Manson. I never cared what Bug did ten years after the trials.
I found much of Nelson's research to be better than anyone elses if you understood Nelson's tendency towards twisting things people told him. Nrlson uncovered stuff no one else found so in a way he was the main researcher of Manson. Though he was a tenacious researcher it was to his disadvantage that he was a lousy writer. If you want an example of his tendency to twist peoples words just watch the Geraldo reunion episode with Family members where TJ got mad at him for skewing his meaning. It looked like TJ wanted to punch him.
Katie said:"It's bad enough to have your child murdered, but to have her put thru the mill like that borders on hedonistic."
I couldn´t agree more. But how about Debra Tate being photographed nude showing everything and more in some porn-magazine a few years after her sister being murdered?
That was a fine way to hounour her dead sister.
Thanks everyone for your comments regarding Nelson.
I know almost nothing about the guy. If he is indeed a child molester, then he's just human garbage.
But I have to agree with Mr. P. If someone has character flaws it doesn't necessarily mean they don't have real information on this case.
Matt, would you post that link to his old site again or let me know the name of it and I'll Google it. I've read that Nelson's mental problems might have stemmed from the many painkillers he was taking.
Hi Salem! Good to see you.
V717, I don't understand Debra's actions with the nude layout either. I agree, it was just like an "in your face" to her dead sister.
Maybe that's why Paul Tate was mad at her????? Don't know.
I watched Susan's December 2000 parole hearing on You Tube yesterday, but I think some of it's missing. I didn't hear the statements that Nelson said that James made. It looks like part one starts out after the hearing was already underway.
If anyone can find the missing parts and post a link, I'd appreciate it!
Concerning Paul Tate removing Debra from his will:
I am not surprised if that family broke apart. They were all thrust into the natiomal limelight after a hideous murder of the established older sister. This wrecked that family. I'm sure that the Tate family wasn't the only family that was crushed. The Labianca family went through hell too.
It's interesting that Bill says that Susan told him that Tex locked her out of the Tate house while he stabbed Sharon.
Susan has changed her story so many times I've lost count. I guess she hoped that someday she would come up with the perfect story that would get her out.
And I have to agree with Nelson when he says that NONE of them has ever told the whole truth. There are more holes in all of these stories than in a worn out sock. LOL.
Mr. P I agree.
Sharon's murder just tore that family to shreds. Not to mention ALL the other families, but I think that's Sharon's life was more sensationalized in the media than the other victims, which was hard on the Tates.
It is also interesting that Nelson thinks Shorty was murdered behind the ranch not by the highway.
I have never read anything by Nelson. Does anyone have anything they can post, I would like to hear what he said, mad or not.
I am with Fiona - always heard about him but could never find anything by him...just about him.
Can anyone help us out?
MattP asked:
>>>>"off topic l/s did you see the canucks game the other day?
marchand really screwed up one there,talented guy but if he keeps up that nonsense someones gonna hurt him someday"<<<<
Unfortuantely, I missed the game entirely.
Regrettably, I haven't had much time lately, to watch many games at all...
i'm trying to find the link to his website...i had it bookmarked but i deleted it after i posted it.
and searching through all the comments for it is like searching for a needle in a haystack!
there must be a way i can search just my own posts instead of having to go through each thread.
Matt do you remember which thread you posted it on?
charliemanson.com had a link to Nelson's website, but it now goes to some Go Daddy crap.
MattP...
I just added a "blog search" tool, under the index.
Type in any search word... etc.
I hope that helps.
Just don't search for the words "HA HA"... you'll get 3600 results!
LOLOL
Huh...
It's kinda tricky.
When you hit "search"... the results are posted at the very top of the blog... so, you have to scroll back up, to see them.
OK...
I bumped the "search tool" up a few pegs (LOL), just under the "followers".
Since the results are posted at the top of the blog, closer to the top, is more practical.
i can't remember the thread it was on.
it was sometime between may and september...i think.
that narrows it down to about 700,000 comments
www.scribd.com has some bits and pieces the link i had was the whole website from 2002 with working links
I've gotta say...
That "search Tool" doesn't work very well...
It only displays the first 3 sentences of the resulting comment... and when you click the link to read the rest... you have to search through the entire thread again?
Seems kinda worthless to me...
and it was one of those threads where the comments took a long and winding road away from the original post so i don't think searching for bill nelson would help.
>>>Lynyrd said: Just don't search for the words "HA HA"... you'll get 3600 results!>>>
Only 3600?? I figured it would be more like a "ca-jillion". HA HA HA.
>>>Matt said: and it was one of those threads where the comments took a long and winding road away from the original post....>>>
Well that IS like looking for a needle in a haystack. That happens quite a bit. LOL.
MattP...I don't think Marchand's hit was that bad. He's like 5'9 and Salo is 6'4 or something and it looked to me like more of a self-preservation move than something deliberately dirty.
But then I confess to being a homer on this one.
Off topic here, Lynyrd, but we seem to be missing allot of players these days. Any word on Saints whereabouts? And it seems like eons since we've heard from Dickhead and others. Can they still all be hungover with holiday cheer?
the whole marchand thing was just bad timing in the context of that game.
watching the replay he punched salo a few times right before that alot of people say it was a good hip check but it cost us the game and it just looked dirty to me.
that whole game was just strange...lucic gets tossed for being lucic,six guys jump thornton and the other team gets a 5 on3,we get a goal on a clear as day icing call.
just strange
saint circumstance seems to have disappeared from all the blogs,i was reading that antiliz blog yesterday and someone was talking about putting a cork in him whatever that means so maybe it has something to do with all that bad weirdness
Is this the link you're looking for?
I posted it before and it only posted half of it. Maybe this will work.
http://web.archive.org/web/
20000616171111
/http://mansonmurders.com/
index.asp
yeah thats it,if you go about three quarters down that page click the link that says viewing the pages of this web site theres still alot of stuff there.
cool letter...Where did it come from, i.e., what is the provenance?
I have my sources...
And as Aaron Neville said it best:
"That may be, all you need to know".
Mary said:
>>>>"I am with Fiona - always heard about him but could never find anything by him...just about him. Can anyone help us out?"<<<<
Hi Mary.
I added some things to the thread... I hope that helps.
To my knowledge, those are the only two books he wrote... and I threw in a bonus video, so you could see him in action. LOLOL
: )
Dumpty, dumpty, dummm.....let's see, where did I put that? I know it's here somewhere. Dagnab it.....Oooopss.
Oh...hi everybody! I didn't know the mike was on. HA HA.
Just kidding!! LOL.
Thanks for the link Ken. And thanks for the directions on where to click Matt.
Unfortunately, a lot of that stuff seems to be missing.
Fiona and Mary, I hope that you can find something on Bill's website that can satisfy your curiosity. It seems to be slim pickings from what I saw. But I didn't spend a whole lot of time on there yet.
>>>>>>>>>>>BOBBY!!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Good to see you!!! LOL.
This is better.
http://web.archive.org/web/
20000621110033
/http://mansonmurders.com/
updateyear2000.html
Parts of Bill Nelson's old website can be accessed through Wayback, if you know how to navigate it..
Go to here and click your way around. Or try for example 7 June 2000 (here).
It's a bit hit and miss, and many links are gone - but it was one poorly constructed site anyway.
Bill Nelson was a singularly unattractive person.
FrankM
....and this.
http://web.archive.org/web/
20000621140340
/http://mansonmurders.com/
viewingpages.htm
i noticed if you click on the links a second time some will load
Sorry, Ken - guess I cross-posted. My links go to the same place.
FrankM
Hi Frank!!! Long time no see!!!
Thanks for the links guys. Matt, I tried clicking several times and then just gave up. I'll try again. :)
Leary, I don't know where St. Circumstance is, but I guarantee you he's not gone. Sometimes he takes time off, but he always comes back.
St. Circumstance....we miss you! :)
Here is an interview with White Rabbit in 12 parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5uCBqsgWQ8&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Hi, Katie. I'm usually here. Just don't post much.
I have this old fashioned idea that I should only post when I have something worthwhile to say, which isn't very often.
Well, worthwhile is a bit subjective, I guess ..
Stay well
FrankM
Thanks Lynyrd, Frank, Matt, and Ken...I am having trouble getting the links to work on his webpage but will keep trying.
BTW Katie (and others), keep clicking - the links do work, but the Wayback engine does get overloaded.
FrankM
Frank, in my humble opinion, everything you say is worth hearing. Please post as often as you wish.
Mary, I've had the same problem with clicking the links. I really think that some of the links could not be recovered. I think that sometimes they just disappear. Especially video & j-peg links.
But...I could be wrong. Keep trying. :)
the pictures are gone but when you click a link once let it load all the way when it fails go back to viewing pages of the website click the link again.
almost all of them have worked for me so far.
Nelson may be the blogger who made stars of the family members. Nelson dug them all out of the woodwork and wrote about them. There was no hiding for them with Nelson tracking them down.
thanks Katie...I was just worried there might be some sort of secret hit list and TLB students were being systematically eliminated.
Just kidding of course.
But the Col has been missing since 11/16 and several other "regulars" have disappeared as well. I was just wondering if they might have accepted your invitation for drinks and you had em all locked in your basement for amusement purposes.
A girl has got to get her kicks.
Yah where the hell is Saint?
Leary, you've gotta eliminate the competition somehow. HA HA HA.
I think the Col is on another hiatus. His blog is still up so I'm assuming he'll be back like last time.
As for other bloggers, they're probably still out there reading the blogs, just not posting for whatever reason.
Perhaps some people are spooked out by postings at Le Rubrique/Le Paradoxes and don't want their rl name, address and photo splashed over cyberspace?
No inside knowledge on my part, just a suggestion ..
FrankM
I've got Nellie's book. I know 8 year olds who can spell better, but I must admit his story of how he busted in on Gypsy during her Sunday School choir meeting is priceless.
Adam, what did he say happened?
Nelson claimed he was there in her church to pray with her.Gypsy was freaked at first.(Hell, it ain't like Nelson creepy crawled her house)
Katie, as you may be aware by now I have a memory like a sieve! I will re-read the chapter beofre giving a detailed account so I don't get my facts wrong.
I heard this guy was a real nut ball. He talks about demonology and then says some of the victims were killed execution style. Execution style is commonly used when the motive is drug related.
How is Susan Atkins or any of the girls at the Tate house murderers? The police report says two weapons were responsible for the murders, a bayonet style knife and a 22 calibur gun. What was Tex and Pat doing tossing a bayonet back in forth over their victims heads like they were playing "keep away". Tex killed everyone those girls didn't do shit. Susan Atkins is totally guilty of being the biggest dumb shit on earth for ruining her life either because she believed lying lawyers or she was just an idiotic liar. But that's all she's guilty of.
I've met Manson, he's not scary. Especially not nearly as scary as this guy was. Talk about obsessed. To think the cops wasted all those tax dollars digging up the desert based on this lulu's opinions.
In something i did read ,I read susan was the onlh one to pay any Restitution to the Family's
katie8753 said...
I believe that Beauders said that the girls swam in the pool when Dean Moorehouse was living there
Dean Moorehouse never lived there. That's part of the ongoing mythology/disinformation that walks around with this case. Cielo.com's site has the documents that prove Moorehouse couldn't have lived there and Rudi Altobelli's court testimony doubly emphasizes this.
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