A very sincere THANK YOU from Katie and I, to everyone who has visited our blog, over the past ten months.
Thanks for all your wonderful contributions, both on-blog and off...
Although Katie and I, have personally visited the blog probably 80,000 times ourselves... we couldn't have done the other 20,000 without you!! AHahahahaha
Congratulations to LS, and the entire staff. Your site offers a different perspective and opportunity for discussion which has been quite enjoyable. Thank you for allowing me to post.
I traveled to Philly to see Van Halen during their "reunion" tour with Roth a couple years back... and had a genuine Philly Cheesesteak while I was there! Good stuff!
True story... Many (many) years ago, I was on a date... and I had never had a "reuben" sandwich before. Long story short... the girl talked me into trying one... and I never regretted it. LOL I'm still not even completely sure what's in the sandwich, to be honest with you. LOL I think it was pastrami, saurkraut and some type of russian salad dressing... but, it pretty much rocked.
You feel old? I remember seeing Van Halen on their 1978 tour. Well, I don't actually remember the concert, but I just recently found the ticket stub as we were packing to move to SoCal. It must have been a great concert....
Katie, that is one of those million dollar questions. While No Body case convictions are more common now, it was much more difficult then. Today, with the technology that we are all plugged into, it is easier to track movements and activity, both for the victim and the defendant. You have more opportunity to find both direct and circumstantial evidence.
However, with Shorty, it was pretty much all circumstantial evidence which garnered the conviction. They had testimony from witnesses regarding Shorty being thought of as a snitch,you had his daily habits establishing a pattern, you had his disappearance, you had his foot locker with Bruce Davis' fingerprints, you had the missing guns, etc. Each piece of circumstantial evidence becomes an important buildinng block upon which things are built. Then you have a prosecutor who must have the ability to convince a jury that but for a murder, there is no way the victim would just disappear. It is not easy but it can, has been, and will in the future, be successful.
thnaks Tom. I will collect. But a Philly cheesesteak has to be eaten in Philly. I am hoping to catch a Phils game this summer so start sizzling the peppers and onions. Man, the Flyers, Bruins and Rangers are all kicking ass this season. Gonna be a great playoff year. Yeah, Mr Fish, but who can forget the look on his face when he says.. "Tom, can you get me off for old times sake." Mr. Fish sleeps with the fishes.
A special thanks to our other "regulars", who must be mentioned, as well:
Beauders, Saint, MattP, Poirot, Starship, V717, and most recently Bing. They've all made this place so much fun.
...and most especially, my man Bob... with us from DAY ONE! The guy ROCKS! His famous "Watkins Glen" thread, is still one of my favorite memories! Love you man!
...and LadyRam, Bedpan, Frank, Jim, RFoster, Lynn, Stella, and Wharf Rat... wherever you are!
Excerpt from cross-examination of Susan Atkins in the trial. Chief defence attorney Paul Fitzgerald asked Miss Atkins, "Why were these people killed?" "Because I belived it was right to do anything to get my brother out of jail," she said, referring to Beausoleil, "and I still belive it was right." Q. Did you kill them out of passion or hatred? A. "No, I didn´t know them that well" that I felt anything about them. Source: The Indipendent Record, Thursday, February 11, 1971-5. So what we have here is an "indirect confession" that the perpetrators and the victims wasn´t unknown to each other: "(No, I didn´t know them that well.)" Could that also explain why Abigail Folger waved and smiled at Susan Atkins when she saw her? - And then she walked to the south, towards the hallway off wich were the two main bedrooms of the house. In the one on the left, Abigail Folger lay reading alone. She looked up, she saw Sadie, and Abigail waved! Waved and smiled and Sadie smiled back and walked away-. Ed Sanders, The Family.
Thanks everyone!!!! Those 3 blondes and that gorgeous redhead.
>>>V717 said: Excerpt from cross-examination of Susan Atkins in the trial. Chief defence attorney Paul Fitzgerald asked Miss Atkins, "Why were these people killed?" "Because I belived it was right to do anything to get my brother out of jail," she said, referring to Beausoleil, "and I still belive it was right." Q. Did you kill them out of passion or hatred? A. "No, I didn´t know them that well" that I felt anything about them.>>>
Source: The Indipendent Record, Thursday, February 11, 1971-5.
>>>>V717, this was not from Susan's Grand Jury Testimony. It's from her testimony at the penalty phase.
I've tried to explain to you all that the "copy cat killings" were thought of in the penalty phase of the trial. Charlie ordered the girls to say that.
>>>Could that also explain why Abigail Folger waved and smiled at Susan Atkins when she saw her?>>>
IF Abigail Folger did smile and wave (and that's a BIG IF)....we only have Susan's word on that. And that's pretty "iffy".
Katie: I have also never belived in the copy cat motive. Okay: It's from her testimony at the penalty phase. What I´m try to prove is that the killers and the victims wasn´t strangers. The problem is that everybody seems to have a fixation on Manson and that prevents other explanations. I don´t go for Vincent Bug´s "supernatural" story aka "HELTER SKELTER." There was rational motives for these killings but as Vincent Bug himself said that the only way he could connect Manson to these murders was to present "HELTER SKELTER" to the jury and the public. He couldn´t come up with a more rational explanation because in that case Manson probably had gone free. If one don´t buy Vincent Bugs version of the story then one must seek after other clues. In that case the perpetrators didn´t choose their victims on random instead they had some unfinished business with one or more of the guests at the Tate house. I say,follow the money and the drugs and you might end up on 100 50 Cielo Drive.
>>>V717 said: What I´m try to prove is that the killers and the victims wasn´t strangers. The problem is that everybody seems to have a fixation on Manson and that prevents other explanations. I don´t go for Vincent Bug´s "supernatural" story aka "HELTER SKELTER." >>>
V717, we've discussed the "Helter Skelter" motive ad infinitum. I won't say my opinion on that motive again since it has been posted many times before. Look it up.
The killers DID NOT know the victims. Period.
That doesn't make Charlie guilty or innocent.
BUT, Charlie DID order the murders. Hands down. Both nights.
Linda didn't...Tex didn't...neither did anyone else.
Katie: BUT, Charlie DID order the murders. Yes I heard that before but I tell you one thing. Charlie don´t have to order or commit any murders. He has already murded all people on this planet,in his mind. He has said goodbye to the human race and his only wish is to be a coyote out in the dessert. That is what ATWA is all about.
>>>V717 said: Charlie don´t have to order or commit any murders. He has already murded all people on this planet,in his mind. He has said goodbye to the human race and his only wish is to be a coyote out in the dessert. That is what ATWA is all about.>>>
34 comments:
A very sincere THANK YOU from Katie and I, to everyone who has visited our blog, over the past ten months.
Thanks for all your wonderful contributions, both on-blog and off...
Although Katie and I, have personally visited the blog probably 80,000 times ourselves... we couldn't have done the other 20,000 without you!!
AHahahahaha
(Just Kidding)
; )
Thanks Everyone...
Much Appreciated
I've had a good time. On to 200,000.
Over 100,000 in less than 10 months!! Woo Hoo!!!
You're still the ones -- who can scratch my itch.
Still the ones -- and I wouldn't switch.
We're still having fun, and you're STILL the ones.
HA HA HA!
THANKS EVERYBODY!!!
yes, congrats to the Archie and Edith of blogging. Well done.
Gather ye flock, my gut says 2012 is going to have some happenings.
@leary7......I owe you a cheesesteak. A bet is a bet.
Thanks Tom & Leary. We've got some good stuff coming up in the next few weeks!!! :)
Congratulations to LS, and the entire staff. Your site offers a different perspective and opportunity for discussion which has been quite enjoyable. Thank you for allowing me to post.
The check's in the mail....
Hi Mr. Dill!!
I've been meaning to ask you a question. Something I've wondered about for a while.
How did they successfully prosecute Clem, Bruce & Manson for Shea's death without a body?
I'm thinking of the (2) Aruba disappearances of late, and no charges have been filed because there is no body(ies).
There are other cases that were prosecuted without a body, and no guilty verdict was reached. Some jurors need all the puzzle pieces I guess.
Do you know why that would be???
Love the new avatar Dilligaf.
His real name of course, is Abe Vigoda... but to me, he'll always be "Mister Fish"!
I loved that spin-off sitcom he did "Fish"... even though it only lasted 35 episodes, and two seasons. LOL
I remember his wife's name (on the show) was "Bernice". LOL
Funny the stuff, one remembers...
Details here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_(TV_series)
Jeez... 1977-78?
I'm freakin' old as dirt!
LOLOL
Hi Leary.
I've got a premonition that 2012 will be "eventful" also...
Here's hoping!
LOL
Hi Tom.
I traveled to Philly to see Van Halen during their "reunion" tour with Roth a couple years back... and had a genuine Philly Cheesesteak while I was there!
Good stuff!
True story...
Many (many) years ago, I was on a date... and I had never had a "reuben" sandwich before.
Long story short... the girl talked me into trying one... and I never regretted it. LOL
I'm still not even completely sure what's in the sandwich, to be honest with you. LOL
I think it was pastrami, saurkraut and some type of russian salad dressing... but, it pretty much rocked.
LS,
You feel old? I remember seeing Van Halen on their 1978 tour. Well, I don't actually remember the concert, but I just recently found the ticket stub as we were packing to move to SoCal. It must have been a great concert....
Katie, that is one of those million dollar questions. While No Body case convictions are more common now, it was much more difficult then. Today, with the technology that we are all plugged into, it is easier to track movements and activity, both for the victim and the defendant. You have more opportunity to find both direct and circumstantial evidence.
However, with Shorty, it was pretty much all circumstantial evidence which garnered the conviction. They had testimony from witnesses regarding Shorty being thought of as a snitch,you had his daily habits establishing a pattern, you had his disappearance, you had his foot locker with Bruce Davis' fingerprints, you had the missing guns, etc. Each piece of circumstantial evidence becomes an important buildinng block upon which things are built. Then you have a prosecutor who must have the ability to convince a jury that but for a murder, there is no way the victim would just disappear. It is not easy but it can, has been, and will in the future, be successful.
Thanks Mr. Dill! That answers a lot of my questions!
thnaks Tom. I will collect. But a Philly cheesesteak has to be eaten in Philly. I am hoping to catch a Phils game this summer so start sizzling the peppers and onions.
Man, the Flyers, Bruins and Rangers are all kicking ass this season. Gonna be a great playoff year.
Yeah, Mr Fish, but who can forget the look on his face when he says..
"Tom, can you get me off for old times sake."
Mr. Fish sleeps with the fishes.
The picture of that kid! LOL.
Congratulations on your success, Lynyrd and Katie.
You both have such great presence, and connect so easily with everyone...
Thank you both for creating your blog and allowing us to gather here...
Congratulations, y'all. Well deserved honor...y'all have worked your butts off and we have appreciated it.
Way to go Lynyrd & Katie, this is a very unique forum and I have had some good times here so thank you for all of your hard work...you both rock!!
Wow...
Three GORGEOUS Blondes in a row!
What more could a blog administrator want for their 100 Grand party?!!
LOLOL
Thanks So Much Ladies... LOVE You ALL!
You All ROCK!!!
Well, after 3 beautiful blondes, how about a ravishing redhead? LOL I need an Ann-Margret avatar. Or maybe Ann-Margrock??
This has been a great blog, I enjoy it and am looking forward to more great threads.
How about a stash of Gerber's jelly mint baby food? Thx guys for the wonderful blog and warm welcome. I'll be back.
Happy Christmas, Happy New Year...all that stuff...
Congrats LS & Katie! Now let's shoot for that 1 million mark, then we'll really celebrate!
Keep up the good work..I'm always with you in spirit...
Peace & much love...
((((((((((VENUS))))))))))
((((((((((STORMSURGE))))))))))
((((((((((KIMCHI))))))))))
Thanks a million... you guys/gals are the Best!
A special thanks to our other "regulars", who must be mentioned, as well:
Beauders, Saint, MattP, Poirot, Starship, V717, and most recently Bing.
They've all made this place so much fun.
...and most especially, my man Bob... with us from DAY ONE!
The guy ROCKS!
His famous "Watkins Glen" thread, is still one of my favorite memories!
Love you man!
...and LadyRam, Bedpan, Frank, Jim, RFoster, Lynn, Stella, and Wharf Rat... wherever you are!
Excerpt from cross-examination of Susan Atkins in the trial. Chief defence attorney Paul Fitzgerald asked Miss Atkins, "Why were these people killed?"
"Because I belived it was right to do anything to get my brother out of jail," she said, referring to Beausoleil, "and I still belive it was right."
Q. Did you kill them out of passion or hatred?
A. "No, I didn´t know them that well" that I felt anything about them.
Source: The Indipendent Record, Thursday, February 11, 1971-5.
So what we have here is an "indirect confession" that the perpetrators and the victims wasn´t unknown to each other: "(No, I didn´t know them that well.)"
Could that also explain why Abigail Folger waved and smiled at Susan Atkins when she saw her?
- And then she walked to the south, towards the hallway off wich were the two main bedrooms of the house. In the one on the left, Abigail Folger lay reading alone. She looked up, she saw Sadie, and Abigail waved! Waved and smiled and Sadie smiled back and walked away-. Ed Sanders, The Family.
Thanks everyone!!!! Those 3 blondes and that gorgeous redhead.
>>>V717 said: Excerpt from cross-examination of Susan Atkins in the trial. Chief defence attorney Paul Fitzgerald asked Miss Atkins, "Why were these people killed?"
"Because I belived it was right to do anything to get my brother out of jail," she said, referring to Beausoleil, "and I still belive it was right."
Q. Did you kill them out of passion or hatred?
A. "No, I didn´t know them that well" that I felt anything about them.>>>
Source: The Indipendent Record, Thursday, February 11, 1971-5.
>>>>V717, this was not from Susan's Grand Jury Testimony. It's from her testimony at the penalty phase.
I've tried to explain to you all that the "copy cat killings" were thought of in the penalty phase of the trial. Charlie ordered the girls to say that.
>>>Could that also explain why Abigail Folger waved and smiled at Susan Atkins when she saw her?>>>
IF Abigail Folger did smile and wave (and that's a BIG IF)....we only have Susan's word on that. And that's pretty "iffy".
That's definitely not a fact.
Thanks Mary, Marliese, Missy & Venus!!
You guys are the shiksas. Who hoo!!
Stay mainframe. LOL.
Kimchi!!! Thanks, thanks for all your help!!!
I'm looking forward to your research in the future!!!
Katie: I have also never belived in the copy cat motive. Okay: It's from her testimony at the penalty phase.
What I´m try to prove is that the killers and the victims wasn´t strangers. The problem is that everybody seems to have a fixation on Manson and that prevents other explanations. I don´t go for Vincent Bug´s "supernatural" story aka "HELTER SKELTER."
There was rational motives for these killings but as Vincent Bug himself said that the only way he could connect Manson to these murders was to present "HELTER SKELTER" to the jury and the public. He couldn´t come up with a more rational explanation because in that case Manson probably had gone free.
If one don´t buy Vincent Bugs version of the story then one must seek after other clues.
In that case the perpetrators didn´t choose their victims on random instead they had some unfinished business with one or more of the guests at the Tate house.
I say,follow the money and the drugs and you might end up on 100 50 Cielo Drive.
Hi V717.
>>>V717 said: What I´m try to prove is that the killers and the victims wasn´t strangers. The problem is that everybody seems to have a fixation on Manson and that prevents other explanations. I don´t go for Vincent Bug´s "supernatural" story aka "HELTER SKELTER." >>>
V717, we've discussed the "Helter Skelter" motive ad infinitum. I won't say my opinion on that motive again since it has been posted many times before. Look it up.
The killers DID NOT know the victims. Period.
That doesn't make Charlie guilty or innocent.
BUT, Charlie DID order the murders. Hands down. Both nights.
Linda didn't...Tex didn't...neither did anyone else.
Night night.
Katie:
BUT, Charlie DID order the murders.
Yes I heard that before but I tell you one thing. Charlie don´t have to order or commit any murders. He has already murded all people on this planet,in his mind. He has said goodbye to the human race and his only wish is to be a coyote out in the dessert. That is what ATWA is all about.
Congratulations guys on 100k, here's looking towards a million.
If you post it they will come
In all seriousness though, you guys do an excellent job and we all appreciate the time and effort you put in. keep up the great work
rock on!
>>>V717 said: Charlie don´t have to order or commit any murders. He has already murded all people on this planet,in his mind. He has said goodbye to the human race and his only wish is to be a coyote out in the dessert. That is what ATWA is all about.>>>
So THAT'S what ATWA is all about. HA HA.
Thanks Bing!!! Glad to have you on board!!! :)
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