Bobby Beausoleil to be "Script Research Consultant" for Upcoming Movie?!
"Manson Rising" - 2012
A biopic depicting the life of Charles Manson. Told over five decades, this project seeks to provide an objective look into the life of the American outlaw and convicted murderer.
- Status: Pre-production
- Tagline: "The real story behind the man, the myths and the media"
- Release Date: 31 October 2012 (UK)
- Filming Locations: Los Angeles, California, & North Carolina, USA
- Production Co: North Bank Entertainment
- Trivia: Former Manson Family member Bobby Beausoleil was spoken to, as part of the director's research for this project.
Storyline:
In the summer of 1969, a series of murders in California shocked the world. Over the course of two nights seven people were butchered in their own homes, among them Hollywood actress Sharon Tate. The trail eventually led to Charles Manson and the subsequent court case propelled the ex-con to worldwide notoriety. Today he remains one of the world's most infamous criminals, still getting regular media coverage and dividing public opinion, while having the unique distinction of being convicted of nine murders yet never proved to have been present at any of them. Various film and literary projects have depicted Charles Manson down the years, however none have explored the man in the depth in which 'Manson Rising' does. Told over five decades, this project explores Manson's childhood relationship with his mother Kathleen Maddox, an adolescence spent in reform schools, his marriage and attempt to lead a conventional life...
Written by North Bank Entertainment.
"Look At Your Game Girl" - Written by Charles Manson - Performed by Charles Manson - Courtesy of Awareness Records
"Garbage Dump" - Written by Charles Manson - Performed by Charles Manson - Courtesy of Awareness Records
"Hallways of the Always" - Written by Charles Manson - Performed by Charles Manson - Courtesy of Awareness Records
"Sick City" - Written by Charles Manson - Performed by Charles Manson - Courtesy of Awareness Records
"Eyes of a Dreamer" - Written by Charles Manson - Performed by Charles Manson - Courtesy of Awareness Records
Bobby's Name Listed here, as "Script Research Consultant":
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1671471/fullcredits#cast
See my last post on the last thread lol
ReplyDeleteI thought his upcoming book would be good for this very reason....
He is the most reasonable of them today it seems....
ReplyDeleteHe wont be much help with TLB- but the early days, and background stuff should be very credible
By the way- nice scoop- this is the first I have seen of this...
ReplyDeleteIs Don Murphy connected to this one, perchance?
ReplyDeleteHi Patty!
ReplyDeleteFunny you should ask...
LOLOL
The person who sent me this information, said "Andrew Jones"... (the director's name), sounded WAY too generic... and hinted it could be an alias for Don Murphy.
Andrew Jones DOES sound like a fake name to me, as well.
But beyond that... your guess, is as good as mine.
LOL
Always fun to speculate though...
I agree Saint...
ReplyDeleteIf this movie makes it to the big screen... it should prove very interesting, to say the least.
Personally, I find Pat the most credible... but, Bobby would be my next choice... (among Manson, Leslie or Bruce).
It seems the movie... although filmed in the US, is slated to open in the UK??
ReplyDeleteNot being a movie expert... I'm not quite sure what that implies... or, if there's any significance to that fact.
Lack of funding?
Do many (US filmed) movies open in the UK?
Maybe we'll have to buy it on DVD?
LOL
Pat is remorseful and a reasonable as well- who unlike Bobby has never really told different versions of the story...
ReplyDeleteBut she is very quiet, and bobby is very vocal on his site- so it is much easier for me to guage his mindset nowadays...
Katie- for sure more trustworthy source- but how much is she willing to share???
Boy, I don't know who did the casting for this film, but all the girls look like playboy bunnies.
ReplyDeleteThey've got a bleached blonde playing Rosemary????
Oh well, at least the guy playing Gary Hinman is a HUNK!! LOL.
That's really cool that they're using Manson's music for this film.
ReplyDeleteI've run across Andrew Jone's name before relating to the Manson subject. I think he's real. If I remember I'll let you know.
ReplyDeleteHe's got a wikipedia page, anyway...
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jones_%28filmmaker%29
Katie said:
ReplyDelete>>>>"That's really cool that they're using Manson's music for this film"<<<<
I agree Katie.
I think using Manson's own music... performed by Manson himself... is a good move.
It's a classy move.
It adds a measure of authenticity to the production, right from the start.
I can't say I EVER expected THAT statement to come out of KATIE'S mouth... but, maybe we're finally making some headway!
LOLOL
I had to double-click your account, just to make sure it was actually you!!
AHahahaha
IMPOSTER!!
LOLOL
Ahhh...
ReplyDeleteLeave it to Matt, to dis-spell the myth so quickly!
AHahahaha
A certain amount of mystery and intrigue, is good on these blogs!
LOL
Heck, I thought we'd at least squeeze 24 hours out of it. LOL
Turns-out, a simple google search took 3 minutes! : )
I'm just kidding...
Afterwards, I started thinking to myself:
The name "Jones" must be rampant in Britain.
A British guy named "Andrew Jones" is really not so far-fetched at all.
Well... that was fun while it lasted... LOL
Thanks Matt!
I owe ya one! LOL
" Told over five decades, this project explores Manson's childhood relationship with his mother Kathleen Maddox, an adolescence spent in reform schools, his marriage and attempt to lead a conventional life".
ReplyDeleteThe above portion of the description, is what I'm looking forward to, most.
His relationship with his mother Kathleen Maddox... his adolescence in reform schools... his failed marriage, etc.
These (early times) are the areas least explored in these movies.
These folks are starting right from the beginning.
... a very good place to start!
LOLOL
"Manson Rising"?
ReplyDelete"Lucifer Rising"?
Lynyrd said: I can't say I EVER expected THAT statement to come out of KATIE'S mouth... but, maybe we're finally making some headway!
ReplyDeleteLOLOL
HA HA HA. I had a momentary loss of musical coordination.
Just kidding. I think it will add some authenticity to the film.
Since Bobby is the consultant, it will be interesting to see how they portray the part of Gary Hinman.
ReplyDeleteA no-good, card-carrying, bad drug making scumbag OR...a well liked, too trusting, peaceful music teacher.
Lynyrd, I don't know why the movie would open in the UK. I don't know that much about movie production either.
ReplyDeleteMaybe because the director is British??? Dunno.
For me the question is in the cold light of dawn, so to speak, how many people really would go see a biopic of Charlie? I know there is still data - website hits etc - that indicate his character still resonates...but unless there is a new hook or compelling slant of some kind I am dubious.
ReplyDeleteDepicting his relationship with his mother, for example, does that really have "legs" as they say in journalism?
My guess is this guy wants to do a sort of "Monster" (Aileen Wuornos) style character study. The difference is Aileen was clearly a one dimensional character whereas Charlie is so multi-dimensional he is almost a multiple personality.
Personally, I think if a film maker could use the Manson story to seriously capture the flavor of the times - the whole nihilistic hedonistic 'love the one you're with' mindset that was like a wildfire in the summer of '69 then it would be an important work of art.
Or, just add some lesbos like Sussana.
Not the last sentence- but the last idea from Leary is what I think would make a great movie....
ReplyDeleteYou may not be able to capture the truth...
you could capture the times- the feeling of the moment....
That would the first step up from the other movies...
a feeling of realness
It is why I got excited when the rumor circulated Oliver Stone was going to take a try...
I think he could capture this...
Hi Leary. I don't know how much of the world's population has any interest in Charlie. I could think it was a small percentage who follow the case.
ReplyDeleteBut just the mention of a movie about him might interest horror fans or curiosity seekers who just want a quick thrill. Look how many times they re-did Friday the 13th. LOL.
I don't know much about this movie, and if they're going to get much into the murders, or if it's just a psychological movie trying to figure out what makes Charlie tick (Good luck on that one).
Or like you said, it might just be another lesbian flick like Susanna Lo is doing. Judging by the looks of the cast, the latter might be true. HA HA.
stone might capture the feel but i'm not sure honesty is one of his strong suits.
ReplyDeletejust watched 'jfk' again a few nights ago and the amount of bs in that film is astounding.
great filmmaker but he takes huge liberties with the truth and hes so good at what he does that he can convince people who don't know any better that his version is what actually happened.
for instance he could make a scene where manson is paid by the mafia to commit the murders as a hitman and someone who doesnt read up on the case will take it as fact without doing any research of their own.
histories a dangerous thing to play with no matter how strongly you feel about your own point of view.
I think your right Matt...
ReplyDeletebut he did such a good job with Val Kilmer in the Doors...
and he did a pretty good job of recreating the period as well....
but your JFK point is valid- he really did force an angle into the actual events...
I am not really a JFK expert- but I have read several discrepancies between his movie and the truth...
Although lol- I have watched that movie 5 or 6 times...
Becuase as earlier said Matt...
ReplyDeletemaking a movie about the truth is impossible....
nobody knows for sure what the truth is
so our best chance at a good movie- is at least one that gives us a true idea of the mood and vibe going on at the time- which may help at least get a feeling of what they were going through...
or as I have said- another idea which may work...
would be the Val Kilmer ( him again) route in Wonderland- where you tell the story from a few points of view- and let the audience decide what they believe based on a few re-telllings from different angels..
although every one will have there own version of the facts- and there own clouded memories- still when the same happenings come up in more than one recollection, by more than one non -related person- that gives that particular happening some validity... less likely for separate people with separate agendas to fabricate the same ideas right???
i just saw wonderland a couple of months ago and thats probably the way to treat a subject like that.
ReplyDeletelet the audience make up its own mind.
but if you tried that in 'jfk' the damn thing would have been ten hours long!
in the manson case everyones going to downplay things that make them look bad and to me you end up with something thats just as unrealistic as something an outsider would have put together(like a history channel documentry).
to me the best manson film made so far is the first hendrickson documentry and even that is an example of a filmmaker putting his own spin on things to an extent.
but it really puts you in the time...because it was of the time.
overall i think these films based on history are a lose-lose proposition factwise but i have to say that i'd like to see what stone would do with this subject.
it certainly would look good thats for sure.
Matt- I agree again...
ReplyDeleteI own about 5 or 6 of the various movies, and the only one I ever watch repeatedly is the Hendrickson Doc- and I watch it over and over for the exact reasons you just gave...
As Leary suggested, it certainly would be interesting to see, just how popular a movie based on Manson specifically, would be (at the box office), these days.
ReplyDeleteTo an extent, we live in a bubble on these blogs.
I mean...
I certainly would be excited to watch this movie at a theater.
But nationally... or even inter-nationally... (as Leary suggested), who knows...
I believe aggressive advertising can make a difference.
But again... it's a circle.
It goes back to how much money would a company be willing to pump into agressive advertising... (for a movie on this subject)?
There has to be confidence in a movie's potential at the box office (to begin with), to encourage investment.
Demographically...
I wonder which age group spends the most at the box office?
That's a large factor.
My guess would be folks under twenty-five years old.
Assuming I'm correct... and that's a BIG assumption:
One has to wonder if "kids" would have any interest in this topic?
My guess, is that middle-aged folks (40-60 years) would have the most interest in this era, and topic... and elderly folks, probably just don't frequent theaters often (to see any subject).
If they could somehow get young folks under 25, "fired-up" to see this type of movie... they just might make some money here.
The 40's-60's set alone... might not be enough to produce numbers at the box office.
put some of the actors from Twilight in it...
ReplyDeleteor Hannah bannana or whatever it is...
kids these days huh? lol
I hate to bring up Stone again...
ReplyDeletebut he made Natural born killers such a good movie- a lot of people dont even realize its based on a true story...
The Manson name alone wouldn't necessarily have to carry the box office in itself if the movie was made well and had some other intangibles...
and besides can you remember what happened twenty years ago for sure?
ReplyDeleteokay now double that and add a few years.
and if you can remember are you sure its what really happened and not just what you want to remember cemented over by the passage of time?
if that makes any sense!
i think a manson film with a big name director like stone would do pretty well.
ReplyDeleteSaint...
ReplyDeleteYou took the words from my mouth.
It all boils down to the quality of the movie.
I've seen quite a number of "Holocaust" movies.
One would think, the subject would be exhausted, after a while.
Yet...
I've come out of the theater after seeing movies like "Schindler's List"... or "The Pianist", thinking... damn, that was a pretty good freakin' movie! LOL
Look at the "Mob Movie" genre...
They've made the same movie 12 times... but, many of them are still great.
"Goodfellas", "Godfather", "Bronx Tale"... even "Casino"...
Heck... they even use the same actors!
AHahahaha
I won't even get into the "horror movie" genre...
A well-made movie (on this,or any subject), will rise to the top (Manson Rising? LOL).
Whereas... a shitty movie on ANY subject... is a shitty movie.
Maybe that's what defines a great movie producer...
The ability to take virtually any topic, and create an enjoyable movie.
Let's face it... a VERY BAD movie, can be made on ANY topic!
The topic alone, cannot completely carry any movie... if the movie itself sucks.
Evidently...
ReplyDeleteAttracting a great producer, and great actors... goes a LONG way, in determining the outcome (and success) of a movie.
Common sense I guess...
A great coach, and great players create a great sports team... and great musicians create a great band.
Three producers can make a movie on the same exact subject... and one movie will be a smash hit... and the other two will blow.
I'd LOVE to see what a young Stanley Kubrick would have done with the Manson topic!
Clockwork Orange?
Space Odyssey?
That guy was WAY before his time.
Tom Hanks has successfully "pulled-off" many completely different roles.
ReplyDeleteForrest Gump
Apollo 13
Private Ryan
Philadelphia
Green Mile
Sleepless in Seattle
Talk about a versatile actor...
Splash- too close for comfort- he started out as a comedic actor...
ReplyDeletehe did grow tremendously over his career...
Great range indeed he developed
it is a shame that such a beautiful man does not have a beautiful heart and soul
ReplyDeleteWho me Mary?
ReplyDeleteHi Mary!
ReplyDelete>>>Mary said: it is a shame that such a beautiful man does not have a beautiful heart and soul>>>
Are you talking about Manson...or someone else.
It must be someone else, because Manson is NOT beautiful.
LOL!
no, saint baby...you are a beautiful man WITH a beautiful heart and soul :)
ReplyDeletecough, cough
ReplyDeleteno, Katie...definitely NOT Manson...Bobby
ReplyDeletejust teasin' Saint...you know I love you you!
ReplyDeleteLynyrd I agree with you.
ReplyDeleteYou can't quantify any movie by the subject matter. But by the cast, crew, direction, lighting, scenery, music, film cutting, editing, etc.
There have been many blockbuster films, some of which you have named, Schindler's List, The Pianist, Gone with The Wind, The Godfather, etc. I could go on and on.
But if you are making a film that is destined to go "straight to video" you have to overcome that with more than a paltry cast and a putrid script.
I WOULD THINK that if you're making yet another movie about the Manson scum, that you would at least have a "fact checker" to make sure that every fact is as accurate as you can get.
Let's face it people. Manson and his family were the scurge of the earth. They were nobodies, nothings, worm's meat, living off hosts, stealing, lying, and killing, all because their stupid hippy cult leader said to.
Intelligence level is below zero.
They are automatons, acting on the words of a very short, ugly, unintelligible master, who just trains them to the sweaty and drooling precipice of "point and shoot". "Stab and pull upward". HA HA. Yeah, he is the master of kill. Like anyone who is living and breathing on this planet didn't already know that???? DUH!!!
Charles Manson was stupid. But his followers were even more stupid.
They followed him like fleas to a dog, like maggots to dead bodies, like gulls to the beach, like rubber-necks to a car wreck. HA HA HA.
You are asking about the motive to the murders; well follow the money as an old saying goes. And I also would add, follow what set of acquaiantances these people was moving in.
ReplyDeleteI think that Mama Cass knew a lot about these things.
From Michael Caine's autobiography What's It All About?, p. 303:
"I had become very good friends with Mama Cass...one night she invited me to a party given for the birthday of some rock-and-roll singer....then Sharon Tate came in with a whole group of people including my friend and barber, Jay Sebring. After a little while they left and I waved good night to them, not knowing I was never going to see them again. Johnny and I were beginning to enjoy ourselves when a scruffy little man came in with some girls who were not only scruffy, but really dirty. They seemed quite out of place there and I couldn't think who could've invited them. Mama Cass introduced me to the guy who did not shake hands but just said, "Hi," and looked me up and down for a moment in a way that gave me the creeps. "This is Charles Manson," said Mama Cass."
vV17, I'm going to bed. Ciao.
ReplyDeleteV I agree lol
ReplyDeleteBut I have never read that before...
interesting stuff- I will go have a looksee today for myself at this book
Never thought of Michael Caine as a source for info- but I have had my Mama Cass as a possible link suspicions for awhile..
I know zero about Michael Caine, but that was an interesting excerpt V717~
ReplyDeleteThanks!
Here is some good Michael Caine trivia...
ReplyDeleteCaine is one of only two actors nominated for an Academy Award for acting in every decade from the 1960s to 2000s (the other one being Jack Nicholson).
I am totally on same page as Matt and Saint and Lynyrd. Any successful Manson pic would be totally dependent on the choice of director and cast.
ReplyDeleteA good case study for me is the film The Departed. As someone who grew up in Southie and knew the characters I despised that film. And of course it had Scorsese and a stellar cast but I thought the writing was atrocious.
But Stone would certainly have been an interesting choice. You all are dead on about the film JFK, pure science fiction, but Stone can capture a place and mood as Platoon testifies to.
I write short stories (Matt, I still am going to send you the one about Junie Oswald and I in the cemetery trying to find her dad's grave by the flick of a bic) and I have been working on one called The Midnight Screams of Shorty Shea which looks at Charlie and the family from the perspective of a meat and potatoes working man. So many who encountered the Manson family in those days came away thinking what idiots and imbeciles. With hindsight and the media's aid we now tend to glorify them as devilish outlaws or even misguided revolutionaries. But maybe they just were idiots. I am pretty sure that is what Shorty thought. Sadly, he apparently underestimated them.
Leary It sounds like an interesting story, and I hope you will make it available when finished as I would like to read it....
ReplyDeletefor sure some part of the glorification of these people has to do with the way anything gets exaggerated with the passage of time...
as well none of them were ever going to blow the world away with intelligence- so more than likely- alot of the things they did would be viewed as idiotic if done by one or two individuals instead of
" The legendary love and terror cult"
lol
Leary...
ReplyDeleteI'd love to read your story on Shorty Shea.
If you want to post it here as a thread, you're most welcome.
Choice is yours... you have an open invitation.
I'm sure others would enjoy it, as well.
hey Lynyrd...I know we aren't supposed to go off topic, but just a quick query...
ReplyDeleteI tried to find the T&L blog today for the first time in awhile and came up empty. Are they off line do you know?
And the Col hasn't posted in nearly a month. Has your site become so hot everyone else has retired?
thanks Saint and Lynyrd. I'll be glad to share when it is done.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I like non-tradition takes on subjects. One of my favorite books growing up was Jimmy Breslin's "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight" about the Gallo mafia family. And of course I loved allot of Hunter S. Thompson's stuff. I wonder why Hunter never took a crack at Charlie.
You know, one of my other short stories that my friends really like is one about the Bush family. I just read some of Nimrod's stuff on Bush...man, he may be eccentric/wound to tight/crazy but he puts some interesting crap out there.
Hi Leary! I'd love to read your short story too. Thanks for sharing.
ReplyDeleteI can get on T&L blog with no trouble. Try this link:
http://latishablacky.blogspot.com/?zx=bce12936fb77efe5
As it would have it- I thought you were NimRod at one point Leary...
ReplyDeleteHe goes by a few other names- and he is bright and articulate like you-
out of respect for L/S
I will leave the subject at that with a few nice words....
and come back later when it is on to something esle :)
yeah Saint, I know he has irritated, offended and enraged more than a few folk and I have no desire to debate his merits, but I always like to give people their due when they put interesting stuff out there.
ReplyDeletethanks Katie for the link. Funny, how I once did battle with you and Saint but now find you guys delightful and provocative. Maybe I grew up...nah. Just realized life is to short.
Hi Leary!
ReplyDeleteThis link will take you to Thelma and Louise:
http://latishablacky.blogspot.com/
Click the big red button that says... "I understand, and wish to continue"... and you're in!
As for Colonel, I have no idea.
He's been doing this for years.
Maybe, he's just taking a break, or busy with work.
Colonel has tons of stuff on his site... going back years.
His site is a great archive of information, research, and documents.
Colonel is literally one of the first pioneers, in TLB blogging.
He goes WAY back.
Why he's curently in-active... I have no idea.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with me.
I don't always agree with Colonel's "interpretation" of the facts... but, he definitely knows the facts... and has spear-headed tons of research in this area.
I respect Colonel's knowledge and longevity... 'nuff said.
He doesn't bother me... I don't bother him.
With Bret gone...
Cats is the only one left, with an information archive which rivals Colonel's.
They seem to get-on, with mutual respect as well.
So Mama Cass introduces Michael Caine to Charles Manson. So many Hollywood people, it seemed, knew Manson. Dennis Wilson was terrified of him. After the murders, why didn't any of these singers/stars tip the police off that Manson may have been behind the massacres?
ReplyDeleteHi Carol. I was thinking the same thing. Everybody was so closed mouthed 40+ years ago, and now that most of the people who could refute these claims are dead, people are coming out of the woodwork and saying that they met Manson. I have a hard time believing all of them.
ReplyDeletekatie, that's true. We don't know if any of these people really met and knew Manson. But I think we can be fairly certain of some of them: Terry Melcher, Dennis Wilson, Mama Cass. Yet after the Cielo murders, not one of them thought that Manson could be behind it? Melcher and Wilson, especially, knew what Manson was capable of - they were terrified of him. They changed their residences because of him.
ReplyDeleteCarol, did Cass ever SAY she knew Manson. So many people keep saying that they met Manson at her house. I don't know if I believe that or not.
ReplyDeleteIt's easy to say that now because she's not around to deny it.
As far as Melcher and Wilson go, they were afraid of Charlie, but probably didn't think he was that dangerous to have committed these vicious murders. Once they found out he was involved, I'm sure they were even more afraid of him and his family.
Lynyrd said "With Bret gone...
ReplyDeleteCats is the only one left, with an information archive which rivals Colonel's.
They seem to get-on, with mutual respect as well."
You bring up an interesting point. Patty has always found it odd that Brett's site gets called "a great site, one of the best" even though he outed Clem, and basically ruined the man's life (what's left of it).
We at Eviliz post recent photos of people, but with little or no effect to their personal lives. We give the blogging community something really different and unique, but we are often reviled for it. What is the reason for this dichotomy? It's a real mystery to Patty. Interested to know how your thoughts.
katie, since Melcher lived at Cielo and moved from there basically because of Charlie, I would have thought that Charlie would be the first person Melcher thought of after the massacre at Cielo. Or maybe it's easy for me to be logical after 40+ years.
ReplyDeleteCharlie knew many people in the music and entertainment business.
ReplyDeleteHere is Neil Young talking about Manson.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EihjxyAVvEE
Carol, I have contemplated your point a thousand times...it would be impossible for me to believe that Melcher and Wilson didn't at least give pause to the notion that Manson and his idiots had something to do with the carnage at Cielo. Yet there is no record of either doing so, from a friend or girlfriend or such. Were Terry and Dennis oblivious or just chickenshit?
ReplyDeleteThanks for update on T&L and the Col, Lynyrd. I would have loved to have been able to see Bret's site, heard nothing but wonderful things about it. Real tragedy.
The basic problem is that probably most of the famous people didn't know Manson by name- and when his name became famous- nobody wanted to acknowledge having anything to do with him...
ReplyDeleteIf you look at which musicians were running around Laurel Canyon in that period...
Charlie wouldnt have been that special before the murders- and who would talk about knowing him after??
I have three separate books that quote Neil young talking about Charlie- but not one word that's spoken by him after the murders...
ReplyDeleteand I wouldn't think it would be any different with the others...
Forget about any musical aspirations- the people who were killed were hip and friendly with most of the Hollywood beautiful crowd...
There would have been guilt by association
by the way for those of you like me who were too embarrassed to ask lol...
ReplyDeleteI kpet hearing about Brett site- and was so jealous i never got to see it...
until I realized I had read every word on it under its official name- which I didn't realize was " Brett's site"
The Manson Family Today...
What I liked most about that site..
was that you could watch and read all the old parole hearings, and listen/watch Tex/LULU/Sadie...
talk about what when down in there own words as they got older...
I must have went through them for years over and over...
RIP BRETT !!!
I learned much of what I know about everything that happened after 1970 from his site...
interesting point Patty, but a really dangerous can of worms. It started a holy war over at T&L a year or so ago. i just say the blog world is neither a fair or rationale place at times and leave it at that.
ReplyDeleteSt. Says...
ReplyDeleteClem got more life than he deserved
Too bad he cant tour the country with a rock and still keep his anonymity..
Too bad for old Clem.....
Sorry I meant Rock Band...
ReplyDeletePlaying dates with Bob Weir and Steve Miller are not exactly the way to keep on the down low....
Agreed, Leary. Peace. Patty is feeling a little feisty today obviously... RIP, Brett.
ReplyDeleteV717...
ReplyDeleteThanks for the footage of Neil Young.
In the past, I've read that exact interview in print.
I've seen Neil's words in text form...
But, to see Neil Young actually speak those words on screen (regarding Manson), was powerful.
There's something about direct human communication, that text can't completely capture.
It's simply more convincing...
These guys really did, know each other.
Sure they did L/S
ReplyDeletewe have talked about trying to prove who knew who...taking some liberties to fill in the blanks- because of time and lapse of memory- plus unwillingness to be involved..
You know I have been harping on the
" Laurel Canyon Connection"
because if you want to go along with any motive that says they knew each other- you trace where and how they knew each other to its roots...
and MAMA put all of these Music people together... Mama also knew some victims...
We will NEVER get a step by step account if they all did hang out- but if you can connect ENOUGH dots to show they DID...
MAYBE you are onto something...
IF- as Leary said earlier- there is ANYTHING to be onto...
once you realize who it CAN be proved in those music circles Charlie DID meet..
ReplyDeleteand knowing how close they all were to each other...
it starts to be hard to believe there were only one or two of them he DIDN'T meet...
when you think about it....
by the by, I did find my way to T&L - I always really liked those ladies. They have a great interview with Stephen King on his Oswald book. Really interesting stuff as his perspective might relate to the TLB story as well.
ReplyDeleteNeil Young was just about to join Crosby Stills ans Nash at that point- that band was brought together at Mama Cass' House...
ReplyDeleteWhere did Charlie Meet Neil do you think???
was Neil horse back riding at Spahn lol
Or maybe where we know the rest of them were hanging out for sure????
which was across the street from, and also frequented by????
a lot of coincidences??? Still no proof Gibby or voytek met Charlie at Cass'...
maybe not
Also Melcher produced the Bryds- so he was very close with David Crosby as well....
Throw in Wilson, and you are taking a group of people and hand picking who knew Charlie and who didnt...
seemingly to me based mostly on who it can be proved knew him before TLB- as they are the only ones who cant play ignorant....
more likely- that whole circle had met him...
Still- if and what that meant in the big picture is still uncertain to me....
Carol...
ReplyDeleteThat's a very interesting point.
One has to wonder how Melcher... or even Wilson for that matter... didn't at least, have "sneaky suspicions".
As Leary said it better:
"didn't (Melcher and Wilson) at least give pause to the notion that Manson and his idiots had something to do with the carnage at Cielo".
A guy like Melcher meets this weird band of characters... essentially, turns them down... and, is admittedly terrified of them:
But when several folks are slaughtered in his very ex-residence... these same strange folks (ie, Manson) never cross his brain as a "what if"?
Huh?
That's certainly an interesting thought.
Maybe it's like accusing someone of being a thief?
You better be damn sure you're right, before you open your mouth.
You don't want to label someone a thief, just on a 'suspicion".
In this case we're talking murder... and the folks Melcher would be accusing, he feared...
Maybe deep-down, Melcher DID give pause to the notion... but, decided to keep his mouth shut, since he had no way of being sure... or moreover proving it.
Just a thought... in response top your thought.
Thanks Carol!
Leary said:
ReplyDelete"by the by, I did find my way to T&L - I always really liked those ladies. They have a great interview with Stephen King on his Oswald book. Really interesting stuff as his perspective might relate to the TLB story as well".
Thelma and Louise are nice ladies.
I have many great memories there, and wish them all the best.
I wish they would spend a bit of time here, chatting with us... as, I have little time to post over there.
But, I still go over and make a joke now and then, and always wish them well for the major holidays.
And although I don't post... I still read their threads regularly.
A classic blogging spot, for sure...
Definitely cool folks.
>>>Patty said: Patty has always found it odd that Brett's site gets called "a great site, one of the best" even though he outed Clem, and basically ruined the man's life (what's left of it).>>>
ReplyDeleteClem ruined his own life by deciding to join in on killing. He didn't do much for Shorty's life either.
Brett said on his website that when he discovered where Clem was, he thought long and hard about whether to announce it or not. Then he finally decided that he owed his readers this information because that's a lot of what his site was: new info Manson related.
Brett's site was the best site I've ever seen just for browsing around and reading information, newspaper and magazines articles, interviews, parole hearings, police reports, autopsy reports, biographies, courtroom transcripts, rare photos, etc.
I, for one, will miss it.
Carol, that is a good point about why Melcher didn't put two and two together after the Cielo Drive killings and come up with Manson.
ReplyDeleteMaybe because the murders occurred several months after he moved and the police at that time were looking more toward a motive that connected the victims to some type of activity that was potentially lethal???
An e-mail I received from Bobby B recently:
ReplyDeleteIf I estimated a due date on the book it would be a big tease to both of us. I'm just going to keep plugging away on it till it's done. You will be on the mailing list for announcements in relation to my work, so you'll know when it comes out provided you don't change your email address without letting us know. Thanks for your interest in reading what I have to say.
Bobby
-
--- On Thu, 10/20/11, Bobby BeauSoleil wrote:
From: Bobby BeauSoleil
Subject: overdue reply
Date: Thursday, October 20, 2011, 4:48 PM
Hello Lynn,
Thank you for the message you sent to me (yipes!) way back in January. I hadn't meant for it to be so long getting back to you. Writing a book, composing and recording a new album, holding down a regular job, trying to stay in touch with family and friends on a fairly regular basis - it all adds up to making it difficult to keep up with email correspondence. Honestly, I do my best but life is a bitch.
The chapter you read (Dead End) on the website is still part of the book but it has gone through a major rewrite. It is much better now. I have made some significant progress on the book. Not as much as I would like, though. Writing a book about one's life and perspective is no easy task, I'm finding. The book is gradually taking shape, and writing it is getting to be more fun the deeper I get into it.
Regarding aspirations . . .When I was younger I wanted to become a good musician and to be successful doing it. In the late 60s society in this country was in such a state of flux it was hard to have clear plans for the future, or to have much certainty that there would be a future to plan for. The book will go into this in much more depth.
Hocus, Snofox's offspring, was the last dog I had with me prior to my arrest. I left him with a friend who had a ranch just a couple of months earlier because I was having trouble carrying my responsibility to him - almost as if I had a premonition of the trouble that was brewing in my life.
Bobby
----- Original Message -----
To: bobby@beausoleil.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 5:51 PM
Hi Bobby,
I have only visited your site once before. I was just now on your site and read in the Chronicles Section, Dead End. Your writing is amazing. I could feel your emotions and felt like I was in the cell with you. Very prolific. I hope that it is part of your book and that your book will come out soon.
Reading about you when you were younger, as we all did, you lived in the NOW. When you are in your late teens and early twenties, I think sometimes we are more focused on now rather than later. However, even when I was that age, I would think.....when I am beyond these years...this is where I would like to be.
Lastly, I love your stories about your white dogs. Animals are so much a part of our lives. I have a cat who is 16 years old and is a constant companion. Did you have a dog at the time you were incarcerated and what happened to that animal?
Thank you for your honesty and your site. I wish you the best in this New Year.
Wow talk about the horses mouth lol
ReplyDelete( not a LULU reference lol)
Very interesting Lynn....
Dont get sucked in though Lynn- read the whole site...
ReplyDeletehe contradicts himself quite a bit...
he seems very together and honest and real... much more so than almost any of the others... ( save maybe Katie)
but if you read it all- you will see he is very full of himself, and still has that rebellious streak, and still glorifies himself...
maybe he should..
but he Slaughtered and tortured someone who he called a friend...
until that person was deader than a doornail as my dad used to say
Thoughtful guy that he is...
Lynn, why are you writing a convicted killer?
ReplyDeleteShame, shame on you!
If you are so bored, why not write to shut-ins or elderly folks who have been dropped off and forgotten.
Bobby is a killer. He killed for no reason. He will never get out. Who wants to read his stupid book?
If his wife doesn't like it that he isn't "home for Christmas" too fucking bad. She knew the stakes when she got in.
Thanks for sharing Lynn...
ReplyDeleteHere's the thing about the Melcher/Wilson awareness issue....
ReplyDeleteI find it impossible to believe that given the amount of time Dennis spent around Charlie and the family that he NEVER heard them use the phrase pig or piggies. Or Helter Skelter. Greg Jakkobsen heard it often. As did Al Springer and other non-family folk. And when news reports had "death to pigs" and "pig" and Helter Skelter written in blood at the crime scenes...HOW THE F DO YOU NOT PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER???
No, there is simply now way I can accept that the real possibility of Manson involvement did not cross the minds of Melcher and Wilson in the month(s) after the murders. Odds are overwhelming they heard those phrases from the mouths of family members and read about them being written in blood in news reports. Their actions, or inactions, have never been adaquately explained in my hopefully humble opinion.
Yeah...
ReplyDeleteIt's a great point Leary.
It's a point which would enrage some folks... because some folks maintain that "Pig", "HS", "comin' down fast"... and all those catch-phrases were never used, or discussed by Manson, or the family.
That camp believes Bugliosi completely fabricated all those catch-phrases from thin air.
But personally... I agree with you.
Wilson spent loads of time with these yahoos... essentially living with them for a stretch.
He must have heard Manson's entire "rap", many times.
He had to...
Manson never shuts the f#ck up.
That's Manson 101.
I've seen (on video) Wilson explain, that he and Manson, would sit and chat at length, on many occassions.
Heck...
I've even read testimony, suggesting that Manson would sit and talk the blind George Spahn's ear off, on occasion! LOL
Manson could talk a dog off a meat wagon.
That's a fact.
The fact that Wilson and Melcher had zero clue... is kinda strange.
yeah Lynyrd, it is an interesting area of speculation.
ReplyDeleteRefresh me please on who exactly denies those phrases were used by the Family. That certainly seems illogical and farfetched.
I seem to recall that folk like Jakobson and Springer eventually did go to the police with their suspicions, though I am vague on the exact time line, but Melcher and Wilson seemed to have put blinders on and assumed the Sgt Shultz position - I see nothing, I know nothing.
Still, you woulda thunk one of their girlfriends or such would have come forward if they had openly voiced suspicions. Maybe we need to lobby to get Candy Bergen on a polygraph.
Then again, given what happened to Shorty and maybe Ronald Hughes and Barbara Hoyt and possibly others, maybe "dummying up" was the smart move.
Leary, I don't think that Candace Bergen knew much of anything about Charlie. She mentions that she saw him once and went "eewwwww".
ReplyDeletethe phrase helter skelter was never released to the press--it was kept secret as a poly key by the police. melcher and wilson both said if they had known that was written they would have known instantly who had committed the murders. also the family was on a list the police had to check out in regards to the labianca murders.
ReplyDeletethnaks Katie and Beauders...I really should do my homework before commenting...that is really interesting info Beauders, as always you are a beacon of clarity.
ReplyDeletebeauders, I still think that Melcher and Wilson would have, or should have, suspected Manson, even without knowing about the words Helter Skelter at the crime scene. Just the fact that the murders took place at Cielo should have alerted Melcher, at the very least.
ReplyDelete