I don't care for this Manson song a whole lot. To me, it's mediocre at best. I give it 3 or 4 stars, out of 10.
However, I find the Beach Boys song completely intolerable. Honestly, I've never made it through the entire two and a half minutes. It's literally like nails on a chalkboard to me... worse actually.
Manson wins by default.
For me... the Beach Boys literally took a kinda crappy song... and made it completely, horrible!
Probably the worst Beach Boys song ever recorded... and, I generally like the Beach Boys... and I certainly have tremendous respect for their talent, music, and accomplishments. In a word, they're fabulous. They just totally missed the mark with this one. Why they even bothered adding this to an album ... is beyond me.
I just can't picture the Beach Boys listening to "Never learn to Love", and saying: "Yes... we have to have that track on the album". But evidently, it happened...
Things seem to be going well over at Eviliz, as well. I like the new gray wallpaper. The other wallpaper was ecclectic, but difficult to read text on...
Happy Pre-Thanksgiving... from all of us, to all of you!
Compare the beginning of these two songs... you'll get a kick out of it!
"Guitar-wise"... the intro on both, is basically the same chord changes, with a "travis picking" style. I noticed the similarity years ago. (Evidently... as evidenced by the comments section... others have recently noticed the similarity, as well).
Watkins and Poston: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fANjZldYTo
Led Zeppelin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP9xMobANJM
You're definitely welcome to your opinion on these songs. Opinions are completely up to the user. HA HA. I personally like Charlie's version better, but that's okay.
>>>Natlaie Wood case....it's a politcal move....the LAPD is coming under fire for their treatment of prisoner's in jail>>>
How does this have to do with Natalie's case?
>>talk about a mysterious case 30 years old and it involves Hollywood...there ya go!>>>
Well I agree, except that California doesn't need more expense investigating 30 year old cases. So I'm assuming there's something to go on. But I'm not sure. This captain seems to think it's okay to say things now that he hid 30 years ago. Seems fishy to me.
>>>Lynn said: Anyway, they are stating that the police are trying to deter attention to the investigation into the LAPD and how they treat prisoners in jail. The police have not talked to anybody so it seems plausible.>>
i think lynn is talking about the natalie wood thing. as for zeppelin loved em when i was a kid but when i realized how many people they stole music from without giving them credit it turned my stomach...everyone borrows ideas but these guys just took it to a whole other level. heres a three part series from yt on their plagiarism. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyvLsutfI5M thats just part one.
gypsy has ended up a born again christian in texas. she is married to a prisoner and may or may not be in witness protection. she has written a book titled "she was a gypsy woman" but can't get a publisher.
One that always gets me is the similarity between the melody & chord progression in the verses of Steely Dan's "Reelin' In The Years" and CMs "Bet You Think I Care".
I like both but it bugs me thinking of the one when I hear the other.
Gibson used to make a Jimmy Page reissue guitar. It has two litle, tiny switches at the bottom of the pickguard. Look closely. One switch puts you in Munchkin land and the other switch drops a house on you.
Tom said: >>>>"D'yer Mak'er one of my top 5 all time favorite songs".<<<<
"D'yer Mak'er" is my favorite Led Zep song, also. My second would probably be "Hey, Hey what can I do"... but, that's a far second... much like your "secretariat" analogy. LOL
BTW... Starship hates Zeppelin... so, I imagine he'll be here tomorrow, to set the record straight. LOL
katie zep did'nt get away with it,they've been sued many times and they've had to change the credits on alot of songs to avoid even more lawsuits. just because they did them better doesnt make stealing right in my book. btw jeff beck is the best guitarist i ever saw play live,right up there with stevie ray and richard thompson
Zeppelin did "borrow" (LOL), a LOT of music, (and musical techniques) from others... particularly, the Blues genre. "Bring it on Home" by "Sonny Boy Williamson" comes to mind... as well as many Robert Johnson techniques.
However, the undisputed "Queen of Covers" Award, must go to Sheryl Crowe. A comprehensive list of songs covered by Crowe in different settings, whether "live", recorded, or both:
1 All by Myself - Eric Carmen 2 Baby Don't Go - Sonny & Cher 3 Begin the Beguine - June Knight 4 Behind Blue Eyes - The Who 5 Blue Christmas - Doye O'Dell 6 Coal Miner's Daughter - Loretta Lynn 7 D'yer Mak'er - Led Zeppelin 8 The First Cut Is the Deepest - P. P. Arnold 9 Flesh and Blood - Johnny Cash 10 Good Morning Heartache - Billie Holiday 11 Helpless - Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young 12 If I Were a Carpenter - Tim Hardin 13 I Want You Back - The Jackson 5 14 Juanita - The Flying Burrito Brothers 15 Keep on Growing - Derek and the Dominos 16 Lean On Me - Bill Withers 17 Little Wing - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 18 Long Gone Lonesome Blues - Hank Williams 19 Mother Nature's Son - The Beatles 20 Sign Your Name - Terence Trent D'Arby 21 Solitaire - Neil Sedaka 22 Sweet Child O' Mine - Guns n' Roses 23 Time Has Come Today - The Chambers Brothers 24 Who Will the Next Fool Be - Charlie Rich 25 You Are My Sunshine - Pine Ridge Boys
Beauders said: >>>>"gypsy has ended up a born again christian in texas. she is married to a prisoner and may or may not be in witness protection. she has written a book titled "she was a gypsy woman" but can't get a publisher".<<<<
Thanks Beauders. Your information is very interesting, and appreciated, as always.
The first thing that comes to my mind after reading that:
She's married to a prisoner?? What's up with these freakin' people?? Don't they ever get their fill of being associated with criminals?? Cripes!
lynyrd-i've got no problem with people covering songs,hell i'm a replacements fan! but when you rip off artists who made your whole career possible(johnson,howlin wolf,sonny boy williamson to name just a few)and give them no credit at all,thats what pisses me off. all they had to do was add 'trad arrangement by'to the credits and they would have been golden.
Zeppelin should have cited their influences, "sampling", and covers... whenever, and wherever possible. Their music wouldn't have been any less valuable, popular, or sold less units. Plus... it's common etiquette, professional... and the proper thing to do.
I'm not making excuses for Zeppelin... just continuing the conversation.
If I had to take a guess... I'd say this is part of it:
Although, it doesn't make it correct... I think Zeppelin borrowed from mostly deceased artists, during a time when copy-right infringement wasn't a buzz-word. Also... Zeppelin was very clever at not actually doing true "covers". They'd steal parts and techniques... here and there throughout songs... but, didn't always perform "outright covers".
I agree... it's all "shady"... and a band who met with their acclaim and success, should have been more conscious and professional... especially by the second and third albums.
Lynn said: >>>>"I am going to be in the minority here- but I actually really like the Beach Boys version. It has that Christmas-y jingly thing going on".<<<<
Music (like beauty) is largely a subjective matter. If you like the Beach Boys' version... that's cool. "If it makes you happy, then it can't be that bad" LOLOL
What is the best song ever written? Who's the most beautiful woman?? You'd get 10 million different answers, to both...
I have no problem with your opinion... your opinion is your right... and, just as valuable as mine.
If I had to put a finger on why I (personally) think the Beach Boys version fails (besides the obvious reason... that I just can't stand the audio)... it's this:
Manson's song has dark over-tones.... clearly a dark theme, with dark lyrics. The Beach Boys put an upbeat rhythm track to it... and made the lyrics more positive. For me... it just doesn't work. Upbeat, was not the intent of the original song and lyrics... and although a mediocre song to begin with... the dark theme, is probably the original's best redeeming quality.
When the original lyrics (to a song), no longer match the composition (and must be changed)... because you altered the mood of the backing track... you're really turning the song inside out. It's time to just write a new song.
Analogy: It's like Frank Sinatra covering a Black Babbath song.
I like both Sinatra and Sabbath... but, some worlds just shouldn't collide. For me... the Beach Boys covering this song (in an upbeat fashion)... works about as much as, Karen Carpenter covering Captain Beefheart's "Ashtray Heart".
But... to each his own. If you like it... it's none of my business. Different tastes, are what make the world go 'round!
"Lynyrd...I LOVE the song by Led Zepplin "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You." Who wrote it first? Those two or Led Zepplin?" =======================================
Lynyrd Replies: NEITHER! It was a folk song written by Anne Bredon. Led Zeppelin stole it... and later admitted it. Zeppelin paid Bredon substantial royalties/penalties retro-actively.
=======================================
"Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" is a folk song written by Anne Bredon (then known as Anne Johannsen) in the late 1950s. It was recorded by Joan Baez (credited as "traditional") and released on her 1962 album Joan Baez in Concert, Part 1, and also by the English rock band Led Zeppelin, who included it on their 1969 debut album Led Zeppelin".
"Led Zeppelin was inspired to cover the song after hearing Baez's version. Both guitarist Jimmy Page and singer Robert Plant were fans of Baez. Baez's original album had indicated no writing credit, and Led Zeppelin credited the song as "Trad. arr. Page".
"In the 1980s, Bredon was made aware of Led Zeppelin's version of the song".
"Since 1990 the Led Zeppelin version has been credited to Anne Bredon/Jimmy Page & Robert Plant, and Bredon received a substantial back-payment in royalties". ========================================
MattP is right. Zeppelin essentially, stole, borrowed and copied from many sources.
i wonder if they asked mansons permission before they changed things around? if not i can see why he'd be angry all it takes are a few minor changes to completely alter the meaning of a song.when you bust your ass to make something thats your own vision(good or bad)then a bunch of shiny happy people come along and change this and that without permission i can sure understand why mansons blood would boil. that would piss off anyone who writes lyrics...especially the mess that the beach boys made of this song in particular. which was'nt all that great to begin with but did a certain dark charm to it.
i have a tape somewhere of john lennon djing on a new york radio station when he was promoting walls and bridges. he brought in some 50s records and played them to show where the licks from day tripper and i feel fine came from. they changed a few notes here and there but they did'nt take the whole thing verbatim. they built something new from something old which happens all the time.nothing is truly original in rock and roll but things like dazed and confused where zep basically stole a whole song is just bad karma for them...but i think bad karma in alot of forms caught up to zeppelin in the end.
The Beach Boys really did dismantle Manson's original song.
I have no problem with "covers" as such. But, I believe that a "cover" should be a respectful "nod" to the original composer.
The finished product, although your own... should be complimentary... (if nothing else "respectful") of the original intent. The original intent of the song, that is...
The Beach Boys' version almost "pokes fun" at Manson's piece... almost... not quite, but almost. Manson had legitimate cause to be pissed... I would have been.
This "cover" is not a compliment, to the original writer (in this case Manson). It really is just not... regardless of whether one likes the audio or not.
If the Beach Boys really wanted to compliment Manson, (and this song)... they should have went the other way with it. They should have went as "dark" as they possibly could... exploring new possibilities for themselves... like "The Doors... playing "The End". They should have really exploited the "weirdness" of the song.
Instead... they copped-out, and added an upbeat "bubble-gum backing track", and "tamed" the lyrics.
The Beach Boys missed a golden opportunity... to show the world their versatility, and push their boundaries.
Like I said... if I was Manson, I would have been pissed as well.
>>>One that always gets me is the similarity between the melody & chord progression in the verses of Steely Dan's "Reelin' In The Years" and CMs "Bet You Think I Care".>>>
I listened to CM's Bet You Think I Care...and it reminds me of "The 59th Street Bridge Song" by Simon & Garfunkel. That was written in 1966.
>>>Lynyrd Replies: NEITHER! It was a folk song written by Anne Bredon. Led Zeppelin stole it... and later admitted it. Zeppelin paid Bredon substantial royalties/penalties retro-actively.>>>
Thanks Lynyrd. I never knew that. I'll have to see what I can find on Anne's original version. I really like that song.
i'm not sure the anne bredon version exists on vinyl. wikipedia says she sang it on the midnight special radio show,another folk singer on the program named janet smith made her own version of it which joan baez covered(trad arrangement baez, joan tried to rip her off too!) where zep heard it and stole it. no mentions of any albums by bredon
Clem destroyed Dennis Wilson's fancy sports car near the ranch. Why should Dennis pay Charlie? Dennis fed the Family and paid their medical and dental bills in summer 68. Why should Dennis pay Charlie more money for his crummy song? Dennis and Jacobson had to go get back a jeep from the desert that Charlie didn't return. Charlie never paid the studios for their time it took to record Charlie. Charlie had no right to expect more from D Wilson. Charlie stole from Wilson then he threatens him. No matter how much anyone gave Charlie it wasn't enough.
Even after Dennis and Melcher realized what Charlie was about and moved 100 miles away they couldn't escape Charlie. Charlie got mad after realizing they ran from him. So Charlie murders everybody in Melcher's previous house. Nice guy.
Look at what Charlie did to girls who fled Barker ranch? He sent Clem after them with a shotgun.
Charlie was like human quicksand. You couldn't escape him once you met him.
Not really a LED ZEP fan myself, Robert Plant's a bit too whiny..and then all the moaning..does nothing for me..plus some of the songs are like neverending and it drives me crazy...end already. I prefer Black Sabbath..so much better and darker..and I have the best vintage Black Sabbath shirt..yesss
Hi Katie...so Proteus or whatever it's name is over at the Colonel's blog is Monkey Boy right? hahhaa busted again..
Back to the original topic of discussion, I agree the Beach Boys massacred this song and I will use Matt's term destroyed all of its 'dark charm' with their sugar sunshine california surf pop that I despise...yeah I am more of a Jesus & Mary Chain 'Kill Surf City'..happy when it rains kind of a person...but I am really nice...hahaha
hahahaa..'bikini beach party'..imagine how that would have gone down..hey Charlie we transformed your serious philosophical song into a mindless sunny 'bikini beach party'...yeah he had every right to be pissed at the cultural elites..who authorized that? and damn I thought it was a Monkey Boy capture...cause its like my job to follow him through hell..
hahahaa...right no aliens and comets and crazy gold talk but I thought he was trying to be on his best behaviour...I should have known better he can only edit himself for so long..so this Proteus person is a different wack job...the politics of the Manson blogs...so bizzare I am still trying to figure it all out but I probably never will.
Love Hurts" is the name of a song, written and composed by Boudleaux Bryant... first recorded by The Everly Brothers in July 1960.
The Nazareth version was the most popular version of the song and the only rendition of "Love Hurts" to become a hit single in the United States, reaching #8 on the Billboard Hot 100 in early 1976. As part of the "Hot Tracks (EP)" it also reached #15 in the UK in 1977. Nazareth's version was an international hit (reaching #8 in the US, #15 in the UK, and #1 in Canada and Norway), and remains the best-known recording of the song. The Nazareth single was so successful in Norway that it charted for 57 consecutive weeks on the Norwegian charts (VG-lista Top 10), including 14 weeks at #1.
Lynn said: >>>>"Mr. P- thank you, thank you. I was thinking that exactly. I find no need to stick to an original when covering a song. Interpret how you see fit... makes for some interesting tunes.<<<<
Not to be a ball-breaker ('cuz, I like Lynn a lot), but... I've combed the thread twice, and I've yet to find where Mr. P, said anything remotely like that...
He just expounded on why Wilson didn't owe Manson any money.
I must have missed something.
Anyway... I never implied that a band needs to copy the original... far from it. If you're going to parrot, why bother? Just buy the original recording, at that point. It HAS to be original ideas... and the new band HAS to (as my buddy always says) "put their thumb-print on it". I couldn't agree more. My point, is that you have to stay respectful to the original "intent" of the song. I once saw a band do a very dis-respectful rendition of a Johnny Cash song. It IS possible to "mock" another performer, through the use of a dis-tasteful cover. That's my only point...
never implied that a band needs to copy the original... far from it. If you're going to parrot, why bother? Just buy the original recording, at that point. It HAS to be original ideas... and the new band HAS to (as my buddy always says) "put their thumb-print on it". I couldn't agree more. My point, is that you have to stay respectful to the original "intent" of the song. I once saw a band do a very dis-respectful rendition of a Johnny Cash song. It IS possible to "mock" another performer, through the use of a dis-tasteful cover. That's my only point...
Sorry but I don't see the Beach Boys mocking Manson with their cover. Being disrespectful would be in the eyes of the beholder. Having been in an extreme avant garde band, I can tell you that none of our "cover songs" sounded anything like the original. Some liked it, some did not.
Anyway, I will leave it at that. I am off on vacation...
Lynn said: >>>>"Sorry but I don't see the Beach Boys mocking Manson with their cover. Being disrespectful would be in the eyes of the beholder. Having been in an extreme avant garde band, I can tell you that none of our "cover songs" sounded anything like the original. Some liked it, some did no".
Being disrespectful would indeed, be in the eyes of the beholder. I believe the Beach Boys, did nothing flattering with this song... and hence, were dis-tasteful.
And no... none of my covers ever sound exactly like the original either.
Charlie's music had no beat. He did slow ballads like were popular in the 50s. The Beach Boys were a rock band that sang songs with a beat. There's only so much you can do with a droll dirge about dying. Maybe if the Beach Boys had added a V8 with a Hemi to the song?
Social Distortion was in Miami at the Fillmore a couple of weeks ago- they do a very good Johhny Cash- Ring of Fire- they play in on TV during NFL games as they are about to go to commercial....
I love Bob Weir's cover of Desolation Row....
I like David l Roth covering the Beach Boys...
but I dont like the Beach Boys covering Charlie Manson...
I have heard one version of Look at your game girl- by Charlie that wasn't bad...
Otherwise his music wasn't anything that anyone should be covering anyway...
great thread...Lynn citing Graham Parsons thrilled me. His Grevious Angel still my favorite 'country' album of all time. Covers are of course subjective. My favorite Austin singer, Jimmy LaFave does alot of Dylyn stuff and actually a crooner version of "Walk Away Rene" that kills me.
YOu really have to give major props to Lynyrd for running a great blog here - just the right mix of bounce and debate but also keeping the ugliness at bay. And of course the wonderfully ferocious Katie always keeps things moving. It's a good party.
just noticed the date....tomorrow will be 48 years since JFK had his head blown off at high noon in the middle of a town square...caught on camera even...and still the debate continues. Old Lee Harvey...every bit the misfit that Charlie was.
>>>>"The Doors cover of Little Red Rooster with John Sebastian on harmonica is an outstanding example of taking an old tune and making it their own".<<<<
You're absolutely correct Dilligaf! "The Doors" LIVE version of Willie Dixon's, "Little Red Rooster"... found on side 2, of the "Alive She Cried" album... is Absolutely Smashing!
That's hands-down one of Best "Covers", and Live Performances of all-time... and one of my favorite songs as well.
Jim Morrison: "That's what I call a New York Joint"!!
The Doors took a kick-ass Blues song... and made it (25 times) MORE Kick-Ass! That's what I meant by "staying true to the original intent"... and "flattering the song".
If I was Willie Dixon... I would be proud to hear "The Doors" perform my song that way... very proud! Heck... Willie would probably get a few "slaps on the back" from any audience members... who knew he was the original composer. (Assuming he was in the audience, of course)
=============================================
The following is not directed at Dilligaf specifically...
Here's the thing: If a song is written by a mourning artist, who just lost his wife to cancer... with all minor chords, and desperate, sad, emotional lyrics... and some band comes-along and performs it as an upbeat POLKA (LOL)... well, it's "dis-respectful to the original intent". It's hard to stretch the boundaries that far (in most cases)... but, it can be done.
The best (and probably only) redeeming quality of Manson's song, was it's "dark edge". Once you subtract Manson's (intended) "eery element", you've cut the legs off the song. It's not as pronounced (for lack of a better word), as my example above (regarding the "mourners song"), but it's there to a significant degree. That's just my personal opinion... and I know a few things about music.
I've never studied the JFK Assassination at all... so, I'm at a complete loss on that subject. Definitely NOT one of my stronger topics...
"I know, what I know... and, I know, what I don't know". ...and the "Kennedy Assasination", is definitely in my latter category! LOL
BUT, I will say this....
I've watched the "Zapruder?" film in slow motion on YouTube a few times... and it truly was a surreal,(and of course, a historical) event. As I watched the film... I just kept thinking... "I can't believe, this really happened". Like I said... surreal.
I'm sure there are entire blogs, dedicated solely to that topic alone.
Folks have been arguing over the "one gunman, or two" debate for years!
I deleted your last comment, as I'm tired of debating this topic. There's nothing to debate. The Beach Boys version sucks worse than Charlie's Original... which sucks to begin with.
The Beach Boys took a marginal song, and made it even worse... using dis-tasteful "bubblegum" rhythm patterns and lyric changes. They were not respectful to the original mood of the song. Case Closed... nothing more to say.
It's my blog, and I will get the last word. That's a fact, you're just going to have to live with.
Please don't post on this topic further. I don't get frustrated too often, but I'm done with you, on this...
I should add: The Beach Boys, also changed the name of Manson's song.
How many bands, change the original title... when recording music, written by another artist?
It's a slap in the face. Another dis-tasteful decision.
The Beach Boys (I hope), would not dare change the mood, lyrics and title of a Beatles song.
Yet... that's exactly how they treated Manson. The Beach Boys treated Manson... and his song... with no professional courtesy, or respect. Like the song or hate it... it's a fact.
i did'nt see anything disrespectful or bad about lynns comment that would merit deleting it,she just has an opinion thats different than yours. i know its your blog but that seemed a little extreme.
Thanks Katie - been able to read...but by the time I am ready to sit down and comment - y'all are on another topic. Y'all have been on a hot streak lately with topics.
I'm the same way. If there are several new threads, going from one to the other and focusing on new comments and a new thread can be daunting at times. HA HA.
But thanks for making the effort. I've missed your "straight arrow" style of getting to the point. :)
Actually, as much as I would like to blame Lynyrd :)...it is my slow mind that is to blame...by the time I constructed my thoughts on a topic, it was switched...really had nothing to do with the posting of topics.
Look at the comments under each topic...it starts with one thing and ends up through 3 different incarnations. I just don't have a fast enough mind to keep up and don't like to comment when we are on to another subject - my fault completly.
That is what is so great about this blog...we start with one subject and end up with 3 in one post...your commenters are excellent...triple your money.
But let's blame Lynyrd though...and if we can't, can we blame Saint? Either way, it is neither yours or mines fault :)
Matt said: >>>>"i did'nt see anything disrespectful or bad about lynns comment that would merit deleting it,she just has an opinion thats different than yours. i know its your blog but that seemed a little extreme".<<<< =========================================
Matt...
The Beach Boys changed the Lyrics, Mood, and Title... of Manson's song. Those were all shitty things to do. Also... although Manson supposedly was paid a small 'settlment"... I don't believe he was ever (to my knowledge) credited as author on the album. This is all unprofessional, dis-tasteful bullshit.
Matt... the above information is not my opinion... those are facts.
Just because Lynn may find the Beach Boys song (actually Charlie's) pleasing to her personal ear... it does not change these facts.
I've tried to be polite with Lynn. I didn't delete all her comments. If anyone is interested in reading Lynn's opinion of this song and situation... it's still on the blog twice.
I'm NOT going to go around in circles with this young lady a third time out of courtesy.
I don't have the time, nor the inclination to do this dance any further. Stick a fork in me... I'm done.
If any musician treated the Beach Boys, the same way they treated Manson... they'd be pissed... and rightfully so. If Lynn dis-agrees with that statement... well then... she's just plain wrong. I can't spell it out any plainer.
==========================================
Furthermore... and for the record. Lynn never participates in any of the on-topic (Manson) discussions. She only blows-in, when we're discussing music. Evidently, she's an authority, on "all things music".
I'm not going to get into my personal life or accomplishments... but, let's just say... I highly doubt there's much I can learn from anyone musically on this blog.
Lynn's a part-timer... and I'm a very busy man. I'm the only administrator here, and I have lots of responsibilites in regards to this blog... both on-blog, and off. If a part-timer is going to "take me to task" three times over something as simple as this... they don't have to come back. See Ya!
I have better things to do... than explain the same simple concepts repeatedly... to folks who only show-up twice a month.
I love it when Lynyrd goes all Charles Bronson on any idiot who is fool enough to challenge and/or insult Miss Katie. That is good old fashioned Texas barroom etiquitte. Good job over on the other site, Sheriff Skynyrd...damn awful place when you can't compliment a lady without the morons coming out of the woodwork.
He'll never come here to confront me, and if he does... he'll soon regret it.
No Balls. No character. No class.
I know Katie can instigate, and be difficult sometimes. Sometimes she deserves what she gets. But, that guy took things WAY too far. WAY too far...
He's made my "short list" Leary, and I ain't through with him by a damn sight. Paths always re-cross in the blog world, and that guy's got a BIG bulls-eye on his back. I hope for his sake, he really does have ten accounts.
katie, gypsy lives in a suburb of dallas, is that close to you? it's raining so hard here that the salmon are floating out of the rivers and are floating in the streets, unbelivable, go to youtube i bet it's been filmed.
My assessment:
ReplyDeleteI don't care for this Manson song a whole lot.
To me, it's mediocre at best.
I give it 3 or 4 stars, out of 10.
However, I find the Beach Boys song completely intolerable.
Honestly, I've never made it through the entire two and a half minutes.
It's literally like nails on a chalkboard to me... worse actually.
Manson wins by default.
For me... the Beach Boys literally took a kinda crappy song... and made it completely, horrible!
Probably the worst Beach Boys song ever recorded... and, I generally like the Beach Boys... and I certainly have tremendous respect for their talent, music, and accomplishments.
In a word, they're fabulous.
They just totally missed the mark with this one.
Why they even bothered adding this to an album ... is beyond me.
I just can't picture the Beach Boys listening to "Never learn to Love", and saying:
"Yes... we have to have that track on the album".
But evidently, it happened...
Manson wins by default.
What do you think???
I liked both versions but I thought the lyrics were s little eerie.LookbAt YourcGame Girl is more poignant.
DeleteGotta agree, Lynyrd. It's hard to improve on a bad song.
ReplyDeleteHi Matt.
ReplyDeleteAn old friend of mine, used to say:
"You can't make chicken salad, out of chicken shit... no matter how much mayonnaise you use".
I believe that sentiment really applies here.
I haven't been here in some time. You have really improved things. Congratulations.
ReplyDeleteThanks Matt!
ReplyDeleteIt's a work in progress... LOLOL
Things seem to be going well over at Eviliz, as well.
I like the new gray wallpaper.
The other wallpaper was ecclectic, but difficult to read text on...
Happy Pre-Thanksgiving... from all of us, to all of you!
Back atcha. Have a happy Thanksgiving everyone!
ReplyDeleteI have to admit, both of those versions suck, but I have to say Charlie's is more "listenable".
ReplyDeleteIs that him playing guitar?
Matt happy Thanksgiving to you and yours too. :)
ReplyDeleteYou too, Katie!
ReplyDeleteIf I had to make a pick, I would pick Charles Manson's Cease to Exsist, only because the Beach Boys version is just terrible.
ReplyDeleteThat song called Moments by Paul Watkins and Brooks Poston is pretty good.
And that Charity Shayne had a nice voice.....Whatever happened to her?
Hey Katie!
ReplyDeleteThat's Charlie playin acoustic guitar and Bobby playin the electric.
And I agree with y'all......as bad as Cease To Exist is, it kicks ASS compared to what the Beach Boys did with it!
No wonder Charlie was pissed!!!
Hi Tom!! Hi Lurch!
ReplyDelete>>>That song called Moments by Paul Watkins and Brooks Poston is pretty good.>>>
Tom can you post a link to that? I haven't heard it.
>>>That's Charlie playin acoustic guitar and Bobby playin the electric.>>>
Thanks Lurch. I have to say that's good guitar playing.
Charlie's version is much better. I can't blame Charlie for being pissed either.
They should have either passed on it, or accepted it by Charlie. Don't steal it and alter it. Jeeezz.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKYFRwr18ik
ReplyDeleteIt's that song that opens up that Hendrickson movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqe3k3F91RE
Gypsy gone bad.
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ReplyDeleteHey Tom, Lurch and Lynn!!
ReplyDeleteThanks Tom! Great song!
ReplyDeleteI've heard that one before. I have to wonder how much Manson affected these guys in their song writing. It's always a "question". LOL.
But I really like this song! :)
Speaking of Watkins and Poston music folks:
ReplyDeleteCompare the beginning of these two songs... you'll get a kick out of it!
"Guitar-wise"... the intro on both, is basically the same chord changes, with a "travis picking" style.
I noticed the similarity years ago.
(Evidently... as evidenced by the comments section... others have recently noticed the similarity, as well).
Watkins and Poston:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fANjZldYTo
Led Zeppelin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP9xMobANJM
Enjoy!
Hi Lynn!!!
ReplyDeleteYou're definitely welcome to your opinion on these songs. Opinions are completely up to the user. HA HA. I personally like Charlie's version better, but that's okay.
>>>Natlaie Wood case....it's a politcal move....the LAPD is coming under fire for their treatment of prisoner's in jail>>>
How does this have to do with Natalie's case?
>>talk about a mysterious case 30 years old and it involves Hollywood...there ya go!>>>
Well I agree, except that California doesn't need more expense investigating 30 year old cases. So I'm assuming there's something to go on. But I'm not sure. This captain seems to think it's okay to say things now that he hid 30 years ago. Seems fishy to me.
Bottom line is I really have no idea. LOL
Hi Tom...
ReplyDeleteI enjoy Gypsy's "Charity Shayne" music as well.
Gypsy was quite talented musically.
She played violin as well.
Her music is already posted on this blog.
It's listed on the sidebar index, under "Charity Shayne Music".
Peace... Lynyrd
So whatever happened to her?
ReplyDeleteLed Zeppelin is the best. D'yer Mak'er one of my top 5 all time favorite songs.
ReplyDeleteLynyrd...I LOVE the song by Led Zepplin "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You."
ReplyDeleteWho wrote it first? Those two or Led Zepplin?
Hooo-chi mama. HA HA.
another one of my top 5 favorite songs.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAOQkSFTKMw
Oh, Tom.
ReplyDeleteIf we go into Led Zepplin, I can name every song they ever sang.
I have all their songs.
I have to say "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" is the first, but second has to be "Hey , Hey What Can I do".
D'yer Mak'er is definitely in the top 10!!!!
Along with Black Dog, Dazed and Confused, Gallows Pole, Hey Hey, What Can I do, How Many More Times, I Can't Quit You Baby, Immigrant Song,
and the Pièce de résistance "Nobody's Fault But Mine".
The latter song being my Raison d'être.
It's nobody's fault but mine. HA HA.
Oh....forgot to mention "A Whole Lotta Love".
ReplyDeleteThat started the WHOLE THING. HA HA.
A classic by Coldplay.....also in my top 5
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgZkm1xWPE&ob=av3e
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ReplyDeleteSince we are talking about the great ones, can I mention Sir Paul Mccartney?
ReplyDeleteMother Mary came from the pen of Lennon/Mcartney. Their likes we will not see again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdopMqrftXs
>>>Lynn said: Anyway, they are stating that the police are trying to deter attention to the investigation into the LAPD and how they treat prisoners in jail. The police have not talked to anybody so it seems plausible.>>
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what that means.
Love ya doll!!!
>>>Tom said: Mother Mary came from the pen of Lennon/Mcartney. Their likes we will not see again.>>
ReplyDeleteLet It Be.
I think it came from McCartney.
The greatest song ever written!!!
I cried when I first heard this song.!!!
"There will be an answer, let it be".
I still think of this song even now.
If ever people on the earth were destined to find one another, it was Paul McCartney, John Lennon, George Harrison and Ringo Starr.
ReplyDeleteOkay throw in Pete Best.
And of course Charlie Manson and all his ho's.
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ReplyDeleteThis song makes my top 5 songs as well. Back in a day, they wrote.
ReplyDeleteAm I passed 5 songs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xB4dbdNSXY&feature=related
i think lynn is talking about the natalie wood thing.
ReplyDeleteas for zeppelin loved em when i was a kid but when i realized how many people they stole music from without giving them credit it turned my stomach...everyone borrows ideas but these guys just took it to a whole other level.
heres a three part series from yt on their plagiarism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyvLsutfI5M
thats just part one.
Tom, I love Imagine.
ReplyDeleteOne of my favorite songs ever.
Except.....if John and Ono were so adamant, why didn't they give all their money away????
Question???
Lynn, all I can say is ask Gov. Brown what's going on over there. He's just another liberal!!!
ReplyDeleteAsk him what's going on.
Who elected that guy anyway?
Answer; People are people.
ReplyDeleteBetter not to lionize or demonize anyone. That way you aren't shot down.
What do you think?
Matt the reason Led Zepplin got away with it, was because they were better at it!!
ReplyDeleteExcept for Howling Wolf. that guy could sing!!! HA HA.
And Jeff Beck SUCKS!!!!
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ReplyDeletegypsy has ended up a born again christian in texas. she is married to a prisoner and may or may not be in witness protection. she has written a book titled "she was a gypsy woman" but can't get a publisher.
ReplyDeleteOne that always gets me is the similarity between the melody & chord progression in the verses of Steely Dan's "Reelin' In The Years" and CMs "Bet You Think I Care".
ReplyDeleteI like both but it bugs me thinking of the one when I hear the other.
CM... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pEbJGWM0cc
S.DAN... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bwHK1xkgJA
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-Custom/Jimmy-Page-Number-Two-Les-Paul.aspx
ReplyDeleteGibson used to make a Jimmy Page reissue guitar. It has two litle, tiny switches at the bottom of the pickguard. Look closely. One switch puts you in Munchkin land and the other switch drops a house on you.
Tom said:
ReplyDelete>>>>"D'yer Mak'er one of my top 5 all time favorite songs".<<<<
"D'yer Mak'er" is my favorite Led Zep song, also.
My second would probably be "Hey, Hey what can I do"... but, that's a far second... much like your "secretariat" analogy. LOL
BTW... Starship hates Zeppelin... so, I imagine he'll be here tomorrow, to set the record straight. LOL
Kimchi loves the Beatles...
katie zep did'nt get away with it,they've been sued many times and they've had to change the credits on alot of songs to avoid even more lawsuits.
ReplyDeletejust because they did them better doesnt make stealing right in my book.
btw jeff beck is the best guitarist i ever saw play live,right up there with stevie ray and richard thompson
MattP you're correct...
ReplyDeleteZeppelin did "borrow" (LOL), a LOT of music, (and musical techniques) from others... particularly, the Blues genre.
"Bring it on Home" by "Sonny Boy Williamson" comes to mind... as well as many Robert Johnson techniques.
However, the undisputed "Queen of Covers" Award, must go to Sheryl Crowe.
A comprehensive list of songs covered by Crowe in different settings, whether "live", recorded, or both:
1 All by Myself - Eric Carmen
2 Baby Don't Go - Sonny & Cher
3 Begin the Beguine - June Knight
4 Behind Blue Eyes - The Who
5 Blue Christmas - Doye O'Dell
6 Coal Miner's Daughter - Loretta Lynn
7 D'yer Mak'er - Led Zeppelin
8 The First Cut Is the Deepest - P. P. Arnold
9 Flesh and Blood - Johnny Cash
10 Good Morning Heartache - Billie Holiday
11 Helpless - Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young
12 If I Were a Carpenter - Tim Hardin
13 I Want You Back - The Jackson 5
14 Juanita - The Flying Burrito Brothers
15 Keep on Growing - Derek and the Dominos
16 Lean On Me - Bill Withers
17 Little Wing - The Jimi Hendrix Experience
18 Long Gone Lonesome Blues - Hank Williams
19 Mother Nature's Son - The Beatles
20 Sign Your Name - Terence Trent D'Arby
21 Solitaire - Neil Sedaka
22 Sweet Child O' Mine - Guns n' Roses
23 Time Has Come Today - The Chambers Brothers
24 Who Will the Next Fool Be - Charlie Rich
25 You Are My Sunshine - Pine Ridge Boys
Beauders said:
ReplyDelete>>>>"gypsy has ended up a born again christian in texas. she is married to a prisoner and may or may not be in witness protection. she has written a book titled "she was a gypsy woman" but can't get a publisher".<<<<
Thanks Beauders.
Your information is very interesting, and appreciated, as always.
The first thing that comes to my mind after reading that:
She's married to a prisoner??
What's up with these freakin' people??
Don't they ever get their fill of being associated with criminals??
Cripes!
((((((((((CEASE2))))))))))
ReplyDeletelynyrd-i've got no problem with people covering songs,hell i'm a replacements fan!
ReplyDeletebut when you rip off artists who made your whole career possible(johnson,howlin wolf,sonny boy williamson to name just a few)and give them no credit at all,thats what pisses me off.
all they had to do was add 'trad arrangement by'to the credits and they would have been golden.
I agree with you Matt.
ReplyDeleteZeppelin should have cited their influences, "sampling", and covers... whenever, and wherever possible.
Their music wouldn't have been any less valuable, popular, or sold less units.
Plus... it's common etiquette, professional... and the proper thing to do.
I'm not making excuses for Zeppelin... just continuing the conversation.
If I had to take a guess... I'd say this is part of it:
Although, it doesn't make it correct...
I think Zeppelin borrowed from mostly deceased artists, during a time when copy-right infringement wasn't a buzz-word.
Also... Zeppelin was very clever at not actually doing true "covers".
They'd steal parts and techniques... here and there throughout songs... but, didn't always perform "outright covers".
I agree... it's all "shady"... and a band who met with their acclaim and success, should have been more conscious and professional... especially by the second and third albums.
Lynn said:
ReplyDelete>>>>"I am going to be in the minority here- but I actually really like the Beach Boys version. It has that Christmas-y jingly thing going on".<<<<
Music (like beauty) is largely a subjective matter.
If you like the Beach Boys' version... that's cool.
"If it makes you happy, then it can't be that bad" LOLOL
What is the best song ever written?
Who's the most beautiful woman??
You'd get 10 million different answers, to both...
I have no problem with your opinion... your opinion is your right... and, just as valuable as mine.
If I had to put a finger on why I (personally) think the Beach Boys version fails (besides the obvious reason... that I just can't stand the audio)... it's this:
Manson's song has dark over-tones.... clearly a dark theme, with dark lyrics.
The Beach Boys put an upbeat rhythm track to it... and made the lyrics more positive.
For me... it just doesn't work.
Upbeat, was not the intent of the original song and lyrics... and although a mediocre song to begin with... the dark theme, is probably the original's best redeeming quality.
When the original lyrics (to a song), no longer match the composition (and must be changed)... because you altered the mood of the backing track... you're really turning the song inside out.
It's time to just write a new song.
Analogy:
It's like Frank Sinatra covering a Black Babbath song.
I like both Sinatra and Sabbath... but, some worlds just shouldn't collide.
For me... the Beach Boys covering this song (in an upbeat fashion)... works about as much as, Karen Carpenter covering Captain Beefheart's "Ashtray Heart".
But... to each his own.
If you like it... it's none of my business.
Different tastes, are what make the world go 'round!
Katie asked:
ReplyDelete"Lynyrd...I LOVE the song by Led Zepplin "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You."
Who wrote it first? Those two or Led Zepplin?"
=======================================
Lynyrd Replies:
NEITHER!
It was a folk song written by Anne Bredon.
Led Zeppelin stole it... and later admitted it.
Zeppelin paid Bredon substantial royalties/penalties retro-actively.
=======================================
"Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" is a folk song written by Anne Bredon (then known as Anne Johannsen) in the late 1950s.
It was recorded by Joan Baez (credited as "traditional") and released on her 1962 album Joan Baez in Concert, Part 1, and also by the English rock band Led Zeppelin, who included it on their 1969 debut album Led Zeppelin".
"Led Zeppelin was inspired to cover the song after hearing Baez's version. Both guitarist Jimmy Page and singer Robert Plant were fans of Baez. Baez's original album had indicated no writing credit, and Led Zeppelin credited the song as "Trad. arr. Page".
"In the 1980s, Bredon was made aware of Led Zeppelin's version of the song".
"Since 1990 the Led Zeppelin version has been credited to Anne Bredon/Jimmy Page & Robert Plant, and Bredon received a substantial back-payment in royalties".
========================================
MattP is right.
Zeppelin essentially, stole, borrowed and copied from many sources.
i wonder if they asked mansons permission before they changed things around?
ReplyDeleteif not i can see why he'd be angry all it takes are a few minor changes to completely alter the meaning of a song.when you bust your ass to make something thats your own vision(good or bad)then a bunch of shiny happy people come along and change this and that without permission i can sure understand why mansons blood would boil.
that would piss off anyone who writes lyrics...especially the mess that the beach boys made of this song in particular. which was'nt all that great to begin with
but did a certain dark charm to it.
i have a tape somewhere of john lennon djing on a new york radio station when he was promoting walls and bridges.
ReplyDeletehe brought in some 50s records and played them to show where the licks from day tripper and i feel fine came from.
they changed a few notes here and there but they did'nt take the whole thing verbatim.
they built something new from something old which happens all the time.nothing is truly original in rock and roll but things like dazed and confused where zep basically stole a whole song is just bad karma for them...but i think bad karma in alot of forms caught up to zeppelin in the end.
Yes Matt... I agree.
ReplyDeleteThe Beach Boys really did dismantle Manson's original song.
I have no problem with "covers" as such.
But, I believe that a "cover" should be a respectful "nod" to the original composer.
The finished product, although your own... should be complimentary... (if nothing else "respectful") of the original intent.
The original intent of the song, that is...
The Beach Boys' version almost "pokes fun" at Manson's piece... almost... not quite, but almost.
Manson had legitimate cause to be pissed... I would have been.
This "cover" is not a compliment, to the original writer (in this case Manson).
It really is just not... regardless of whether one likes the audio or not.
If the Beach Boys really wanted to compliment Manson, (and this song)... they should have went the other way with it.
They should have went as "dark" as they possibly could... exploring new possibilities for themselves... like "The Doors... playing "The End".
They should have really exploited the "weirdness" of the song.
Instead... they copped-out, and added an upbeat "bubble-gum backing track", and "tamed" the lyrics.
The Beach Boys missed a golden opportunity... to show the world their versatility, and push their boundaries.
Like I said... if I was Manson, I would have been pissed as well.
Matt...
ReplyDeleteSee my post above (in bold) regarding "Babe, I'm gonna Leave You".
Kudos to the first person who can find the audio to Anne Bredon's original "Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You".
ReplyDeleteI've searched everywhere... can't find it.
Hi Beauders!
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info on Gypsy. Do you know where in Texas? Maybe I can sneak up on her and take her picture. HA HA.
The Original "Bring It On Home".
ReplyDeleteSonny Boy Williamson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_BlibrQTmU
Hi Cease!
ReplyDelete>>>One that always gets me is the similarity between the melody & chord progression in the verses of Steely Dan's "Reelin' In The Years" and CMs "Bet You Think I Care".>>>
I listened to CM's Bet You Think I Care...and it reminds me of "The 59th Street Bridge Song" by Simon & Garfunkel. That was written in 1966.
Did Charlie steal that one?? HA HA.
>>>Lynyrd Replies:
ReplyDeleteNEITHER!
It was a folk song written by Anne Bredon.
Led Zeppelin stole it... and later admitted it.
Zeppelin paid Bredon substantial royalties/penalties retro-actively.>>>
Thanks Lynyrd. I never knew that. I'll have to see what I can find on Anne's original version. I really like that song.
One of the most powerful trios to ever play music...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BGlFsf9DM8
Ginger Baker (drums) is a fucking Madman!
AHahahahaha
He makes Manson look SANE!
I Love it!
Jack Bruce - Bass/Vocals
Eric Clapton - Guitar
Seriously... watch Baker's face through-out that clip.
ReplyDeleteThe Man is f#ckin' Demented!
AHahahaha
(In a GREAT Way!)
OMG!
ReplyDeletePatty just posted a diagram of her own asshole, on Colonel's Blog.
Ahahahahahaha LMFAO
I am seriously (no joke), crying over here. LOL
That has gotta be one of the better "come-backs" in blog history.
That was a good one.
I just can't believe, the same folks... are arguing over the same thing... AGAIN!
Insanity...
I have to hand it to Colonel... he's more entertaining than Howard Stern... and, he sits back, and doesn't even comment.
Priceless...
Nice "figure" by the way, Patty!
ReplyDeleteI'd "tap" that! LOL
; )
i'm not sure the anne bredon version exists on vinyl.
ReplyDeletewikipedia says she sang it on the midnight special radio show,another folk singer on the program named janet smith made her own version of it which joan baez covered(trad arrangement baez, joan tried to rip her off too!)
where zep heard it and stole it.
no mentions of any albums by bredon
How ironic is it that a thief (Charlie) gets something stolen from him.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if he saw the irony of that. LOL.
Clem destroyed Dennis Wilson's fancy sports car near the ranch. Why should Dennis pay Charlie? Dennis fed the Family and paid their medical and dental bills in summer 68. Why should Dennis pay Charlie more money for his crummy song? Dennis and Jacobson had to go get back a jeep from the desert that Charlie didn't return. Charlie never paid the studios for their time it took to record Charlie. Charlie had no right to expect more from D Wilson. Charlie stole from Wilson then he threatens him. No matter how much anyone gave Charlie it wasn't enough.
ReplyDeleteMr. P., that's a good point.
ReplyDeleteCharlie thought the whole world owed him a big favor.
Life ain't that way.
Even after Dennis and Melcher realized what Charlie was about and moved 100 miles away they couldn't escape Charlie. Charlie got mad after realizing they ran from him. So Charlie murders everybody in Melcher's previous house. Nice guy.
ReplyDeleteLook at what Charlie did to girls who fled Barker ranch? He sent Clem after them with a shotgun.
Charlie was like human quicksand. You couldn't escape him once you met him.
>>>Mr. P said: Charlie was like human quicksand. You couldn't escape him once you met him.>>>
ReplyDeleteGood analogy!!! HA HA HA.
Not really a LED ZEP fan myself, Robert Plant's a bit too whiny..and then all the moaning..does nothing for me..plus some of the songs are like neverending and it drives me crazy...end already. I prefer Black Sabbath..so much better and darker..and I have the best vintage Black Sabbath shirt..yesss
ReplyDeleteHi Missy!
ReplyDeleteI like Led Zeppelin, even though I'm just now finding out they stole a lot of music. I didn't know that.
I guess maybe I like the time period surrounding them. :)
Hi Katie...so Proteus or whatever it's name is over at the Colonel's blog is Monkey Boy right? hahhaa busted again..
ReplyDeleteBack to the original topic of discussion, I agree the Beach Boys massacred this song and I will use Matt's term destroyed all of its 'dark charm' with their sugar sunshine california surf pop that I despise...yeah I am more of a Jesus & Mary Chain 'Kill Surf City'..happy when it rains kind of a person...but I am really nice...hahaha
Missy, I don't think "Proteus" is Jimmy. I could be wrong...I'm pretty sure I know who it is. Just someone with their lip stuck out.
ReplyDeleteI agree about the song. I've never been a Beach Boys fan. All that falsetto stuff and fun in the sun, car racing and testosterone-filled macho crap.
You don't take a serious minded song and turn it into a "bikini beach party". LOL.
hahahaa..'bikini beach party'..imagine how that would have gone down..hey Charlie we transformed your serious philosophical song into a mindless sunny 'bikini beach party'...yeah he had every right to be pissed at the cultural elites..who authorized that? and damn I thought it was a Monkey Boy capture...cause its like my job to follow him through hell..
ReplyDeleteHA HA HA. Missy...you crack me up.
ReplyDeleteBelieve me, when' it's Jimmy...you'll know! LOL. It will be interspersed with alien sightings and meteors hitting the earth, etc. LOL.
hahahaa...right no aliens and comets and crazy gold talk but I thought he was trying to be on his best behaviour...I should have known better he can only edit himself for so long..so this Proteus person is a different wack job...the politics of the Manson blogs...so bizzare I am still trying to figure it all out but I probably never will.
ReplyDeletethat guy(jimmy) starts out as normal as he can fake being but becomes unhinged pretty quickly.
ReplyDeleteMissy & Matt, you're both right.
ReplyDeleteJimmy might start out as normal, but it recedes very quickly into futuristic abominations.
He can't keep the banter up very long before he starts into worlds colliding.
Just like George Constanza. HA HA.
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ReplyDeleteOne of the great "covers" of all-time:
ReplyDelete"Love Hurts by Nazareth"
Love Hurts" is the name of a song, written and composed by Boudleaux Bryant... first recorded by The Everly Brothers in July 1960.
The Nazareth version was the most popular version of the song and the only rendition of "Love Hurts" to become a hit single in the United States, reaching #8 on the Billboard Hot 100 in early 1976. As part of the "Hot Tracks (EP)" it also reached #15 in the UK in 1977. Nazareth's version was an international hit (reaching #8 in the US, #15 in the UK, and #1 in Canada and Norway), and remains the best-known recording of the song. The Nazareth single was so successful in Norway that it charted for 57 consecutive weeks on the Norwegian charts (VG-lista Top 10), including 14 weeks at #1.
Gram Parsons and Emmy Lou do a great cover of "Love Hurts"
ReplyDeleteLynn said:
ReplyDelete>>>>"Mr. P- thank you, thank you. I was thinking that exactly. I find no need to stick to an original when covering a song. Interpret how you see fit... makes for some interesting tunes.<<<<
Not to be a ball-breaker ('cuz, I like Lynn a lot), but...
I've combed the thread twice, and I've yet to find where Mr. P, said anything remotely like that...
He just expounded on why Wilson didn't owe Manson any money.
I must have missed something.
Anyway...
I never implied that a band needs to copy the original... far from it.
If you're going to parrot, why bother?
Just buy the original recording, at that point.
It HAS to be original ideas... and the new band HAS to (as my buddy always says) "put their thumb-print on it".
I couldn't agree more.
My point, is that you have to stay respectful to the original "intent" of the song.
I once saw a band do a very dis-respectful rendition of a Johnny Cash song.
It IS possible to "mock" another performer, through the use of a dis-tasteful cover.
That's my only point...
never implied that a band needs to copy the original... far from it.
ReplyDeleteIf you're going to parrot, why bother?
Just buy the original recording, at that point.
It HAS to be original ideas... and the new band HAS to (as my buddy always says) "put their thumb-print on it".
I couldn't agree more.
My point, is that you have to stay respectful to the original "intent" of the song.
I once saw a band do a very dis-respectful rendition of a Johnny Cash song.
It IS possible to "mock" another performer, through the use of a dis-tasteful cover.
That's my only point...
Sorry but I don't see the Beach Boys mocking Manson with their cover. Being disrespectful would be in the eyes of the beholder. Having been in an extreme avant garde band, I can tell you that none of our "cover songs" sounded anything like the original. Some liked it, some did not.
Anyway, I will leave it at that. I am off on vacation...
Lynn said:
ReplyDelete>>>>"Sorry but I don't see the Beach Boys mocking Manson with their cover. Being disrespectful would be in the eyes of the beholder. Having been in an extreme avant garde band, I can tell you that none of our "cover songs" sounded anything like the original. Some liked it, some did no".
Being disrespectful would indeed, be in the eyes of the beholder.
I believe the Beach Boys, did nothing flattering with this song... and hence, were dis-tasteful.
And no... none of my covers ever sound exactly like the original either.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe Doors cover of Little Red Rooster with John Sebastian on harmonica is an outstanding example of taking an old tune and making it their own.
ReplyDeleteCharlie's music had no beat. He did slow ballads like were popular in the 50s. The Beach Boys were a rock band that sang songs with a beat. There's only so much you can do with a droll dirge about dying.
ReplyDeleteMaybe if the Beach Boys had added a V8 with a Hemi to the song?
Social Distortion was in Miami at the Fillmore a couple of weeks ago- they do a very good Johhny Cash- Ring of Fire- they play in on TV during NFL games as they are about to go to commercial....
ReplyDeleteI love Bob Weir's cover of Desolation Row....
I like David l Roth covering the Beach Boys...
but I dont like the Beach Boys covering Charlie Manson...
I have heard one version of Look at your game girl- by Charlie that wasn't bad...
Otherwise his music wasn't anything that anyone should be covering anyway...
in my opinion...
great thread...Lynn citing Graham Parsons thrilled me. His Grevious Angel still my favorite 'country' album of all time.
ReplyDeleteCovers are of course subjective. My favorite Austin singer, Jimmy LaFave does alot of Dylyn stuff and actually a crooner version of "Walk Away Rene" that kills me.
YOu really have to give major props to Lynyrd for running a great blog here - just the right mix of bounce and debate but also keeping the ugliness at bay. And of course the wonderfully ferocious Katie always keeps things moving. It's a good party.
just noticed the date....tomorrow will be 48 years since JFK had his head blown off at high noon in the middle of a town square...caught on camera even...and still the debate continues.
ReplyDeleteOld Lee Harvey...every bit the misfit that Charlie was.
Dilligaf said:
ReplyDelete>>>>"The Doors cover of Little Red Rooster with John Sebastian on harmonica is an outstanding example of taking an old tune and making it their own".<<<<
You're absolutely correct Dilligaf!
"The Doors" LIVE version of Willie Dixon's, "Little Red Rooster"... found on side 2, of the "Alive She Cried" album... is Absolutely Smashing!
That's hands-down one of Best "Covers", and Live Performances of all-time... and one of my favorite songs as well.
Jim Morrison:
"That's what I call a New York Joint"!!
The Doors took a kick-ass Blues song... and made it (25 times) MORE Kick-Ass!
That's what I meant by "staying true to the original intent"... and "flattering the song".
If I was Willie Dixon... I would be proud to hear "The Doors" perform my song that way... very proud!
Heck... Willie would probably get a few "slaps on the back" from any audience members... who knew he was the original composer.
(Assuming he was in the audience, of course)
=============================================
The following is not directed at Dilligaf specifically...
Here's the thing:
If a song is written by a mourning artist, who just lost his wife to cancer... with all minor chords, and desperate, sad, emotional lyrics... and some band comes-along and performs it as an upbeat POLKA (LOL)... well, it's "dis-respectful to the original intent".
It's hard to stretch the boundaries that far (in most cases)... but, it can be done.
The best (and probably only) redeeming quality of Manson's song, was it's "dark edge".
Once you subtract Manson's (intended) "eery element", you've cut the legs off the song.
It's not as pronounced (for lack of a better word), as my example above (regarding the "mourners song"), but it's there to a significant degree.
That's just my personal opinion... and I know a few things about music.
Hi Leary.
ReplyDeleteGood to see you, as always.
Thanks for the compliment.
I've never studied the JFK Assassination at all... so, I'm at a complete loss on that subject.
Definitely NOT one of my stronger topics...
"I know, what I know... and, I know, what I don't know".
...and the "Kennedy Assasination", is definitely in my latter category! LOL
BUT, I will say this....
I've watched the "Zapruder?" film in slow motion on YouTube a few times... and it truly was a surreal,(and of course, a historical) event.
As I watched the film... I just kept thinking...
"I can't believe, this really happened".
Like I said... surreal.
I'm sure there are entire blogs, dedicated solely to that topic alone.
Folks have been arguing over the "one gunman, or two" debate for years!
Have a good vacation Lynn!
ReplyDeleteI deleted your last comment, as I'm tired of debating this topic.
There's nothing to debate.
The Beach Boys version sucks worse than Charlie's Original... which sucks to begin with.
The Beach Boys took a marginal song, and made it even worse... using dis-tasteful "bubblegum" rhythm patterns and lyric changes.
They were not respectful to the original mood of the song.
Case Closed... nothing more to say.
It's my blog, and I will get the last word.
That's a fact, you're just going to have to live with.
Please don't post on this topic further.
I don't get frustrated too often, but I'm done with you, on this...
Have a Good One...
I am off to Marco Island for the holiday- plus its my Anniversary this weekend-
ReplyDeleteHappy Thanksgiving- Thanks for the great work, and excellent Blog...
Katie- Thanks to you as well for your great work here
Happy Thanksgiving to all!!
I should add:
ReplyDeleteThe Beach Boys, also changed the name of Manson's song.
How many bands, change the original title... when recording music, written by another artist?
It's a slap in the face.
Another dis-tasteful decision.
The Beach Boys (I hope), would not dare change the mood, lyrics and title of a Beatles song.
Yet... that's exactly how they treated Manson.
The Beach Boys treated Manson... and his song... with no professional courtesy, or respect.
Like the song or hate it... it's a fact.
HAPPY ANNIVERSARY AND THANKSGIVING SAINT!!!
ReplyDeleteHAVE A GREAT VACATION!
SEE YOU AFTER THE HOLIDAY!!!
THANKS FOR THE COMPLIMENT!
i did'nt see anything disrespectful or bad about lynns comment that would merit deleting it,she just has an opinion thats different than yours.
ReplyDeletei know its your blog but that seemed a little extreme.
Happy Anniversary, St. God bless your wife. I'm just sayin....
ReplyDelete:)
Hi Leary! Good to see you!
ReplyDeleteDid you see the comment I made about Warren Jeffs on a previous thread. Just wonder what you think of all this. :)
Hi St. Happy Thanksgiving to you and also happy anniversary!
ReplyDeleteHi Mary, I'm glad to see you're posting more. We've missed your witty comments. LOL.
ReplyDeleteThanks Katie - been able to read...but by the time I am ready to sit down and comment - y'all are on another topic. Y'all have been on a hot streak lately with topics.
ReplyDeleteGreat job by all!
Great to see Leary commenting too!
ReplyDeleteMary LOL.
ReplyDeleteI'll have to remind Lynyrd to slow down a bit.
I'm the same way. If there are several new threads, going from one to the other and focusing on new comments and a new thread can be daunting at times. HA HA.
But thanks for making the effort. I've missed your "straight arrow" style of getting to the point. :)
Actually, as much as I would like to blame Lynyrd :)...it is my slow mind that is to blame...by the time I constructed my thoughts on a topic, it was switched...really had nothing to do with the posting of topics.
ReplyDeleteLook at the comments under each topic...it starts with one thing and ends up through 3 different incarnations. I just don't have a fast enough mind to keep up and don't like to comment when we are on to another subject - my fault completly.
That is what is so great about this blog...we start with one subject and end up with 3 in one post...your commenters are excellent...triple your money.
But let's blame Lynyrd though...and if we can't, can we blame Saint? Either way, it is neither yours or mines fault :)
Mary you kill me! You are too funny.
ReplyDeleteYeah, let's blame the guys. HA HA.
Oh, I forgot...people don't like my "HA HA's".
Oh well...too bad I saw that movie Mary Poppins back in 1964 and I loved the song "I Love to Laugh". And I do love to laugh.
"I love to laugh...loud and long and clear...I love to laugh....it's getting worse every year.
The more I laugh...the more I'm filled with glee...and the more the glee....the more I'm a merrier me."
Love that Dick Van Dyke!!! HA HA HA!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOMqqI-kzHY
if they can't take a joke - screw em.............
ReplyDeleteHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Matt said:
ReplyDelete>>>>"i did'nt see anything disrespectful or bad about lynns comment that would merit deleting it,she just has an opinion thats different than yours.
i know its your blog but that seemed a little extreme".<<<<
=========================================
Matt...
The Beach Boys changed the Lyrics, Mood, and Title... of Manson's song.
Those were all shitty things to do.
Also... although Manson supposedly was paid a small 'settlment"... I don't believe he was ever (to my knowledge) credited as author on the album.
This is all unprofessional, dis-tasteful bullshit.
Matt... the above information is not my opinion... those are facts.
Just because Lynn may find the Beach Boys song (actually Charlie's) pleasing to her personal ear... it does not change these facts.
I've tried to be polite with Lynn.
I didn't delete all her comments.
If anyone is interested in reading Lynn's opinion of this song and situation... it's still on the blog twice.
I'm NOT going to go around in circles with this young lady a third time out of courtesy.
I don't have the time, nor the inclination to do this dance any further.
Stick a fork in me... I'm done.
If any musician treated the Beach Boys, the same way they treated Manson... they'd be pissed... and rightfully so.
If Lynn dis-agrees with that statement... well then... she's just plain wrong.
I can't spell it out any plainer.
==========================================
Furthermore... and for the record.
Lynn never participates in any of the on-topic (Manson) discussions.
She only blows-in, when we're discussing music.
Evidently, she's an authority, on "all things music".
I'm not going to get into my personal life or accomplishments... but, let's just say... I highly doubt there's much I can learn from anyone musically on this blog.
Lynn's a part-timer... and I'm a very busy man.
I'm the only administrator here, and I have lots of responsibilites in regards to this blog... both on-blog, and off.
If a part-timer is going to "take me to task" three times over something as simple as this... they don't have to come back.
See Ya!
I have better things to do... than explain the same simple concepts repeatedly... to folks who only show-up twice a month.
And yes... this Beach Boys song sucks the pickle.
"when things strike me as funny...I can't hide it inside...and sqeak...like the sqeakalers do...
ReplyDeleteI have to let go...with a HO HO HO HO....and a HA HA HA HA too!"
Laughter is contagious.
And..it's the best medicine. According to Reader's Digest.
So I'll continue to laugh. HA HA.
And I really don't care who doesn't like it. :)
Hello Mary!!!
ReplyDelete>>>Mary said: f they can't take a joke - screw em.............
ReplyDeleteHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>>>
Mary....I doubling over here. Seriously I'm laughing so hard I have tears. HA HA HA HA HA!!!!
And when I say "HA HA" it means I'm guffawing. AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!
Love ya Babe!!!!
Katie - you shouldn't give others another thought...especially if they don't have the balls to post here where you are all the time.
ReplyDeleteMary said:
ReplyDelete"Katie - you shouldn't give others another thought...especially if they don't have the balls to post here where you are all the time".<<<<
Make no mistake Mary...
I see and hear everything... and I've got a memory like an elephant.
Some bloggers may be tough with the ladies... but, they definitely don't want to try me on.
Their time will come.
Patience is a virtue...
Mary, you're exactly right!
ReplyDeleteAnd LYNYRD. You're my heeerooooo....as usual. HA HA HA.
I'll sleep soundly knowing you're at the helm watching over me. No boogeyman is gonna hurt me.
Night night everybody!!!
Katie...
ReplyDeleteI went over to Colonel's, and took care of that "situation".
If I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times:
Stay the hell out of that place... I'm not going through this again.
Stay out of there, and keep your damn mouth shut.
Lynyrd...you forgot to say "please". HA HA.
ReplyDeleteDingbat...
ReplyDeleteI love it when Lynyrd goes all Charles Bronson on any idiot who is fool enough to challenge and/or insult Miss Katie. That is good old fashioned Texas barroom etiquitte. Good job over on the other site, Sheriff Skynyrd...damn awful place when you can't compliment a lady without the morons coming out of the woodwork.
ReplyDeleteThat man is a coward.
ReplyDeleteHe'll never come here to confront me, and if he does... he'll soon regret it.
No Balls. No character. No class.
I know Katie can instigate, and be difficult sometimes.
Sometimes she deserves what she gets.
But, that guy took things WAY too far.
WAY too far...
He's made my "short list" Leary, and I ain't through with him by a damn sight.
Paths always re-cross in the blog world, and that guy's got a BIG bulls-eye on his back.
I hope for his sake, he really does have ten accounts.
Don't sweat it Lynyrd. I tore that prick five new assholes.
ReplyDeleteHey...
ReplyDeleteI'm a victim of coi-cum-stance. Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk.
Hi Leary...you're too funny!!! HA HA.
ReplyDeleteHi Dickhead. You and Lynyrd make a good team against idiot, bullying, brainless, no nothing bloggers. LOL.
katie, gypsy lives in a suburb of dallas, is that close to you? it's raining so hard here that the salmon are floating out of the rivers and are floating in the streets, unbelivable, go to youtube i bet it's been filmed.
ReplyDeleteHi Beauders!
ReplyDeleteDallas is about 5 hours north of me, so it's not that close. LOL.
Sorry to hear about your rain problem. I'll have to look on You Tube and see what's going on.