"BRYN"...
The last time this conversation came-up, I got hold of the actual arrest sheets from the raid. They're uploaded here... on the blog. I broke my back for two weeks, trying to prove to myself (and everyone), that "Bryn" was indeed arrested that day. I really wanted it to be true. Yes... I've seen the well-dressed guy sitting on the trailer in handcuffs...
Anyway... if I recall (I'm drawing strictly on memory)... 'cuz, I don't wanna go back and look... there were 29 names on the arrest sheet. Four were minors (children). Of the 25 adults arrested... only about three gave their real name to the police. The sheets are 90% aliases!! Tough task ahead...
I got hold of the "finger-print cards" (also on the blog here)... which the police used in subsequent days, to positively ID approximately 9 more of those "aliases" arrested.
OK... that's 25 minus 9... no "Bryn" (Lukashevsky... or however that name is spelled) identified yet. Down to 16 people!! BUT... the majority of those 16 names left, were females. Thank goodness!
OK... that's 25 minus 9... no "Bryn" (Lukashevsky... or however that name is spelled) identified yet. Down to 16 people!! BUT... the majority of those 16 names left, were females. Thank goodness!
At the time… Cats-Cradle through e-mail correspondence, identified the rest of the male "aliases" for me... I wanna say there were about 5 or so. I trust her word. No males left... and no Bryn/Brian Lukashevsky!! I identified and depleted every male alias on those freakin' sheets... every one... none were Bryn.
Bottom line... even with ALL the original paperwork from that raid... and the help of a few competent friends... I was never able to prove "Bryn"-"Brian" was actually arrested that day. By the end of the research... none of the male "alias" names on those arrest sheets were Bryn or Brian Lukashevsky... none of them. Like I said... it was all researched, analyzed, and discussed to death... and zero.
All six original booking sheets from the raid... and the accompanyiong "finger-print cards" can be found on threads dated April 15 and 16th. It's ALL here... all the original stuff. I pretty much explained everything I discovered (or didn't)... as I went along, in the comments section.
The only name (on the arrest sheets) which remotely resembled "Brian"... was "David Brian Hanum". Acoording to Cats (during my research): "David Brian Hanum" was just a ranch hand. His parents owned a ranch in Olancha.
Read ALL the comments on those threads dated April 15 and 16 respectively... (there are only 29 comments total). I explain (most of) my results/research in the comments section ... as I go...
If ANYONE can produce "proof positive" that "Bryn" was arrested at that raid... based on that (very hard to read) police paperwork... I'd be extremely grateful. Anyone?? It's all aliases. You HAVE to use the "process of elimination" approach. I don't see any other way. And when you do (use that approach)... you end-up eliminating all the male names, before you get to Brian/Bryn. LOL It's maddening...
As far as I'm concerned... the jury is still out. All we have... is a photo of an anonymous... well-dressed male, on a trailor ... and another photo (40+ years later) from facebook... that "kinda" looks like the same guy. I'm NOT saying "Bryn" wasn't an "associate"... I'm just saying... for me, the jury is still out regarding the raid. Until someone can tell me for sure which name on those arrest sheets, is actually HIM... (and can prove it)... I'm not convinced either way. If the guy was arrested... ONE of those names HAS to be him.
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Hope all is well, and I hope this can clarify for you the mess of B.
The paperwork that everyone is citing for Bryan being in, is a compiled list of Known associates of the Manson family as listed by the LAPD.
The Spahn Raid report, which you went thru that lists everyone that was arrested, does not contain Bryan's name. So Bryan may be known for the Crowe shooting association with the Manson Family and thusly made the list of known associates, but he is not on the raid report as being there.
Cats
Please visit my friend Cats at: http://truthontatelabianca.com/
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My thoughts as of 9/22/11:
Bryn's booking photo (mug shot), does not appear to be from the 8-16-69 raid. Kimchi, Cats and (Vera in the past)... have all indicated... the arresting location listed (on the mugshot)... does not correspond with Spahn's. In addition... the date on the mugshot is mysteriously missing.
It's very likely that "Bryn/Brian" had association with Crowe, Wilson and Manson. I'm not disputing these notions. It's also obvious, that Bryn was arrested at least once... hence the mug shot. (I believe "Bryn's" information on that "associates list" Beauders keeps referring to... was taken directly off the mugshot). I also believe there's a pretty good chance, that facebook character is the same guy (from the mugshot).
Here's a few loopholes:
1) Bryn's identity on the original 8/16/69 booking sheets, has not been proven by anyone as of yet... including me.
2) The arresting location on that mugshot, does not "jive" with Spahn's. Also, the date is mysteriously cut-off.
3) Much less important, but still worthy of note: The man on that trailer simply doesn't look 6' 1'' to me. Back in the late 60's... a man over six feet, was a big guy. Kids grow to be giants now-a-days... but, back then, that was a pretty big dude. He's appears to be one of the smaller guys in that photo.
My Conclusion:
IF "Bryn" was present at Spahn's for the 8/16/69 raid... (although handcuffed) he wasn't officially arrested along with the others... (maybe he talked his way out of it, explaining he was a one-time guest)... OR, he was arrested... and his name was omitted from the paperwork intentionally... or by mistake.
There are loopholes here. That's all I'm saying. All these facts are still far from "proven", and hence... remain "assertions"... which could be true. Believe me... I wanted to connect all these dots for everyone definitively. Unfortuantely... as of now... some things just don't add-up.
Just for shits-n-giggles... here's all the "Bryn" photos in one place for comparison.
Photos are from: http://tatelabianca.blogspot.com/
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Today's Email (9-21-11) from Cats...
L-Hope all is well, and I hope this can clarify for you the mess of B.
The paperwork that everyone is citing for Bryan being in, is a compiled list of Known associates of the Manson family as listed by the LAPD.
The Spahn Raid report, which you went thru that lists everyone that was arrested, does not contain Bryan's name. So Bryan may be known for the Crowe shooting association with the Manson Family and thusly made the list of known associates, but he is not on the raid report as being there.
Cats
Please visit my friend Cats at: http://truthontatelabianca.com/
===================================================================
My thoughts as of 9/22/11:
Bryn's booking photo (mug shot), does not appear to be from the 8-16-69 raid. Kimchi, Cats and (Vera in the past)... have all indicated... the arresting location listed (on the mugshot)... does not correspond with Spahn's. In addition... the date on the mugshot is mysteriously missing.
It's very likely that "Bryn/Brian" had association with Crowe, Wilson and Manson. I'm not disputing these notions. It's also obvious, that Bryn was arrested at least once... hence the mug shot. (I believe "Bryn's" information on that "associates list" Beauders keeps referring to... was taken directly off the mugshot). I also believe there's a pretty good chance, that facebook character is the same guy (from the mugshot).
Here's a few loopholes:
1) Bryn's identity on the original 8/16/69 booking sheets, has not been proven by anyone as of yet... including me.
2) The arresting location on that mugshot, does not "jive" with Spahn's. Also, the date is mysteriously cut-off.
3) Much less important, but still worthy of note: The man on that trailer simply doesn't look 6' 1'' to me. Back in the late 60's... a man over six feet, was a big guy. Kids grow to be giants now-a-days... but, back then, that was a pretty big dude. He's appears to be one of the smaller guys in that photo.
My Conclusion:
IF "Bryn" was present at Spahn's for the 8/16/69 raid... (although handcuffed) he wasn't officially arrested along with the others... (maybe he talked his way out of it, explaining he was a one-time guest)... OR, he was arrested... and his name was omitted from the paperwork intentionally... or by mistake.
There are loopholes here. That's all I'm saying. All these facts are still far from "proven", and hence... remain "assertions"... which could be true. Believe me... I wanted to connect all these dots for everyone definitively. Unfortuantely... as of now... some things just don't add-up.
Just for shits-n-giggles... here's all the "Bryn" photos in one place for comparison.
Photos are from: http://tatelabianca.blogspot.com/
33 comments:
THANKS CATS!
YOU ROCK!
Looking at the photos... it's possible that "Bryn" from the mugshot... and "Bryan" from facebook are the same guy.
However...
I don't believe... based on my research... (and Cats' word)... that "Bryn's" mugshot is from the 8-16-69 raid.
Bryn may have been linked to Lotsapoppa... and he may have been a family associate... and he was obviously arrested at least once (LOL)... but, I can't prove through the arrest sheets (from the raid)... he was among those arrested.
I really don't know how anybody could think the guy on the trailer in the raid photo is the same guy in the mug shot.
The mug shot indicates the perp is 6'1" tall, 160 pounds & blonde.
The guy on the trailer looks like he might be a little bigger than Charlie, which certainly isn't 6'1" tall and 160 pounds, and his hair looks brown. He's got short stubby little legs.
And what myopic clown thinks that this guy was dressed up? He looks like a bum.
The guy in the mug shot has beautiful eyes, and his left nostril looks a little bigger than his right nostril. Deviated Septum?
The guy from Facebook could be the same guy. It's hard to tell. Maybe he got his nose fixed.
as i said in the other thread just because the guy was handcuffed doesnt mean for sure that he was arrested.
Hi Matt!
It's pretty obvious that this Bryn or Bryan was arrested at some point. We don't know exactly when.
But the guy on the trailer at the Spahn Ranch raid in August 1969 was not Bryn. That's a fact.
His name doesn't show up anywhere on the arrest report or fingerprint report for the August raid.
So this Bryn fella, whenever he was arrested, and whatever for, didn't happen during the Spahn Ranch raid.
I can tell you one thing according to the mug shot, West Hollywood is the arresting agency..
I believe the arresting agency for Spahn was Malibu/Lost Hills Station.
Too bad part of the tag was cut off or we would have known what he was arrested for and what date.
And another thing, regarding the spelling of the name, LOTS of clerical errors are made, even today..could have been a typo or they couldn't read the officer's handwriting..
Prisoners are released from County Jail all the time due to clerical errors, not on purpose mind you, but it does happen, so something like a "typo" is not uncommon.
Hi Kimchi!!!
I think we've pretty much agreed that Bryn wasn't arrested at Spahn's Ranch in the August raid.
I'm sure there was a lot of confusion going on there at the time, but it's pretty evident that this mug shot is not the same man as the man on the trailer at Spahn's.
Thanks for your input!!!
Aaahhhhh, it rained here tonight.
Peace on Earth.
Good night.
ok i guess i've stirred stuff up. i have the exact same press photo of the raid that features lukashevsky. the rub is i moved and it is in storage. i know john aes-nihil has a copy and confirmed that the man is bryn lukashevsky to the col. i have no reason to lie and have not posted anything on the blogs that is not 100% correct. the man in that photo is bryn lukashevsky.
Hi Kimchi!!!
Kimchi said:
>>>>"I can tell you one thing according to the mug shot, West Hollywood is the arresting agency..
I believe the arresting agency for Spahn was Malibu/Lost Hills Station".<<<<
Cats actually e-mailed me (again) later today, and made the same point.
Cats' second e-mail read:
>>>>"Also, if one looks at the info under the Bryan mug (as pointed out by Vera on the Col's blog) it is from north hollywood... not Spahns"<<<<
You two are in agreement... which is good enough for me. : )
i meant to include that the press photo lists all the mens name and includes the name bryn lukashevsky on it. i really give a hell about this guy i just thought it was interesting he was with crowe the night he was shot and then at spahn the day of the raid.
Hello Beauders!
Beauders said:
>>>>"ok i guess i've stirred stuff up. i have the exact same press photo of the raid that features lukashevsky. the rub is i moved and it is in storage. i know john aes-nihil has a copy and confirmed that the man is bryn lukashevsky to the col. i have no reason to lie and have not posted anything on the blogs that is not 100% correct. the man in that photo is bryn lukashevsky".<<<<
Beauders... as you know... I value your opinion and research.
As I always say... "You Rock"!
Up until now... I believe you've been 100% accurate with your information.
Unfortunately... on this one... I have to politely say... I'm not convinced.
I've done substantial research of my own... as well as consulted with some very knowledgable friends.
I've consulted with some very "heavy hitters"... some mentioned here... others not.
Our verdict:
"Bryn" was not arrested in the 8-16-69 raid.
If you have proof beyond that photo... I'd be happy to stand corrected.
As of now... I've personally seen considerable proof, that Bryn was not arrested that day... and zero, that he was...
Is it possible "Bryn" was there... and NOT arrested as MattP suggests??
Who knows.
BUT... I WILL say this:
The police took the time to list the names of five children/infants on the arrest sheets.
Detained:
These are all children and infants…
1) John Friedman (dob 3-26-59)
2) Zozezose Zadfrack Glutz (dob 10-7-68)
3) Michael Shawn (16 mos)
4) Dennis DeCarlo (17 mos)
5) Tanya Kasabian (18 mos)
They took the time to list a bunch of kids... but exempted "Bryn"???
That seems VERY unlikely to me.
ALSO... I have to agree with Katie.
The mugshot lists Bryn as being 6 feet, one inch tall.
C'mon... that dude on the trailor is NOT 6 feet, one inch tall.
He looks like a peanut.
I've gotta see more proof on this one Beauders.
John Aes-Nihil's word (alone), is not going to convince me.
As I said... if someone can prove me wrong... I'd be happy to stand corrected.
Beauders said:
>>>>"i really give a hell about this guy i just thought it was interesting he was with crowe the night he was shot and then at spahn the day of the raid".<<<<
When Bryn's name came-up again... I thought to myself:
"I'll be damned, if I'm gonna let all my research go down the toilet... and listen to this conversation start from scratch again".
So... I got involved.
Beyond that Beauders... I agree totally.
I think WAY too much time is being invested on this freakin' "Bryn" guy.
Supposedly this "Bryn" is a "link" between Crowe, Spahn's and Wilson.
From there... it's supposed that Bryn is a link between the Cielo and Spahn's groups.
He's essentially:
"The guy who dealt with the hollywood Wilson-types... and the underworld Manson-types".
The big bridge between the two camps/worlds!
This guy's role just keeps growing larger.
It's all over-blown.
Shit... Tex dealt with both Manson and Crowe.
Also... TJ was a Manson associate... who visited Crowe's place once, as well.
It's the same situation in reverse.
Who the f#ck cares???
AND... as I said... I don't even believe "Bryn" was arrested in the freakin' raid to begin with.
Which makes the whole discussion even more foolish.
We're on the same page Beauders... regarding the relative insignificance of this guy.
i think bryn came into manson's orbit through dennis wilson, he was not a hollywood big wig or big time dealer, he did not know the cielo crowd. he did report back to wilson though about the shooting of crowe.
i do believe he is in that photo though, his name is listed on it. maybe someone can explain to me how the u.p. got a hold of his name and why they list this man as bryn if he isn't?
Is there more to this photo?
I see no names listed on it.
And, who is U.P.?
yes there are names on the picture. manson, decarlo, lucakevski, and one or two others are. that's why people are confused by what i'm saying i must not have been clear his name is on the picture. that is why i am so certain it is him. i meant a.p. associated press
i just looked at the booking photo and that bryn lukashevesky has the same bithday january 28, 1948 as the same bryn lukashevesky listed on the manson's associates list.
the photo you are showing has no names on it like it was cut off but my copy and john aes-nihil's both have the names on them.
Why not just go to the guys FB page and ask him?
Hi Beauders!
>>>Beauders said: i think bryn came into manson's orbit through dennis wilson, he was not a hollywood big wig or big time dealer, he did not know the cielo crowd. he did report back to wilson though about the shooting of crowe.>>>
I don't think he knew the Cielo crowd either, so I don't get why this guy is an important link. Why would Wilson care about Crowe?
>>>i do believe he is in that photo though, his name is listed on it. maybe someone can explain to me how the u.p. got a hold of his name and why they list this man as bryn if he isn't?>>>
That I don't know. They made a mistake?? The guy sitting on that trailer does not look 6'1" tall to me. I know he's sitting down, but so are the others, and if you compare him to Charlie, he's just not that big of a guy.
Hi Lurch!!
>>>Why not just go to the guys FB page and ask him?>>>
Well...that might get a little sticky.
"Hey Bryan, are you the guy in the Spahn Ranch raid photo, sitting two down from Charles Manson?"
If it isn't him, he's going to be livid. And if it is him....he might have to shut his Facebook page down.
Beauders said:
>>>>"i just looked at the booking photo and that bryn lukashevesky has the same bithday january 28, 1948 as the same bryn lukashevesky listed on the manson's associates list".<<<<
Beauders... it matches, but here's the catch:
That booking photo, does not appear to be from the 8-16-69 raid.
Kimchi, Cats and (Vera in the past)... have all indicated... the arresting location listed (on the mugshot)... does not corrsepond with Spahn's.
In addition... the date on the mugshot is mysteriously missing.
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Here's where I'm at Beauders:
It's very likely that "Bryn/Brian" had association with Crowe and Wilson... and Manson as well, to a lesser extent.
It's also obvious, that Bryn was arrested at least once... hence the mug shot.
(I believe "Bryn's" information on that list you keep referring to... was taken directly off the mugshot)
I also believe there's a pretty good chance, that facebook character is the same guy.
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Here's a few loopholes for you:
1) Bryn's identity on the original booking sheets, has not been proven by anyone as of yet... including me.
2) The arresting location on that mugshot, does not "jive" with Spahn's.
Also, the date is mysteriously cut-off.
3) Much less important, but still worthy of note:
The man on that trailor simply doesn't look 6' 1'' to me.
Back in the late 60's... a man over six feet, was a big guy.
Kids grow to be giants now-a-days... but, back then, that was a pretty big dude.
He's one of the smaller guys in that photo.
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My Conclusion:
IF "Bryn" was present at Spahn's for the 8/16-/9 raid... he either wasn't officially arrested along with the others... (maybe he talked his way out of it, explaining he was a one-time guest)... OR, he was arrested... and his name was omitted from the paperwork intentionally... or by mistake.
There are loopholes here Beauders.
That's all I'm saying...
All these facts are still far from "proven", and hence... remain "assertions"... which could be true.
Beleieve me... I wanted to connect all these dots for everyone definitively.
Unfortuantely... as of now... some things just don't add-up.
Worth repeating:
Kimchi said:
>>>>"I can tell you one thing according to the mug shot, West Hollywood is the arresting agency..
I believe the arresting agency for Spahn was Malibu/Lost Hills Station.
Too bad part of the tag was cut off or we would have known what he was arrested for and what date".
Yeah... like everything in this case... the most important portion of the mugshot, is cut-off! LOL
Wow. If I had a way cool mug shot photo like that, I would definitely paste it on my facebook. If I had a facebook.
Ok, I'm going to just blow some smoke here:
Let's assume Bryn was at Crowe's when it all went down. He wasn't there with CM, so either he was with Crowe or perhaps there to pick up some product (Perhaps for Wilson?)
He witnesses what goes down and informs Wilson, which leads to Wilson definitely wanting nothing more to do with CM.
CM is rumored later on to have tried to see Wilson, but is rumored to have been thrown out by this guy Bryn...
So when the cops raid Spahn's, and lots of aliases are thrown around, is it not possible that someone, perhaps even CM himself, tells the cops that his name is Bryn Lukashevsky for perhaps no other reason than to annoy him by getting the cops to hassle him?
Just thinking out loud...because I think Lynyrd has made a good point that he wasn't there.
Hi Starship!
>>>So when the cops raid Spahn's, and lots of aliases are thrown around, is it not possible that someone, perhaps even CM himself, tells the cops that his name is Bryn Lukashevsky for perhaps no other reason than to annoy him by getting the cops to hassle him?>>>
That's possible, although when they got "downtown", fingerprinted and booked, that would probably be disproved.
But it's possible that when the picture was taken, the photographer thought this guy's name was Bryn Lukashevsky and labeled the photo that way???
Starship said:
"CM is rumored later on to have tried to see Wilson, but is rumored to have been thrown out by this guy Bryn..."
I decided to research this a little and found it was everyone but Bryan, LOL (that I could find)
Here Ed Roach says it was Dennis himself that CM threatened:
Jump to 21:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jlf6CIkVGc&feature=player_embedded#!
Wiki says:
When Manson subsequently sought further contact (and money), he left a bullet with Wilson's housekeeper to be delivered with a cryptic message, which was perceived by Wilson as a threat
Bugliosi says on page 340 that Charlie handed Jakobson a .44 magnum bullet and threatened to do something with Dennis' son.
Then on the History Channel documentary it says it was "Shapiro" (probably a psudo name)
Or Starship, was this another incident? May I ask where it was mentioned that it was Bryan L?
I guess that's why they label it as "Rumors" LOL
Wish we could connect all this Hawaii stuff - Babs and Ouish in Hawaii, Tex goes to Hawaii, now Bryan L lives there...but what attracted the family back in '69?
Hi Kimchi.
Yes Charlie left a bullet for Wilson to "show him who's boss".
That Charlie. HA HA.
I really don't think that Bryn or whatever his name is was the "end-all be-all" person everyone is making him out to be. I think he was some clown that got arrested for something and now the Col. is trying to make him some missing link to something or other.
That definitely isn't his picture on the trailer.
Now as Starship has suggested, maybe someone at the arrest site at Spahn's claimed to be Bryn, therefore the photog labeled this picture with his name. That's possible. This was Beauders' statement that the photo she has is labeled with his name.
If he was involved with Wilson or Crowe, it's anybody's guess. It's not documented anywhere. It's all hearsay.
Well, now what I'm trying to see is where "Danny DeCarlo" is listed on that arrest report...
I don't see him nor his alias on there, will have to dig through what I have on it...I might be missing it.
And I know he was there...LOL..
OK mystery solved about DeCarlo -
Smith, Richard Allen 5-4, 130 lbs, sailor head tattoo USCG...
I think that was him.
Katie said:
"I really don't think that Bryn or whatever his name is was the "end-all be-all" person everyone is making him out to be. I think he was some clown that got arrested for something and now the Col. is trying to make him some missing link to something or other."
Well, out here in California, we call it "A person of interest"...
The guy in the photo is NOT Bryn. It is Larry Craven. Compare other photos from the raid and you can tell it's totally him (L.C.)
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