Excerpted and paraphrased, from Bugliosi's, "Helter Skelter":
On Nov. 8, 1972, a hiker in Guerneville, CA, saw a hand protruding from the ground. The victim was James T. Willett, 26. He had been shotgunned and decapitated. Three days later, police found Willett's station wagon parked at 720 West Flora Street. When refused entry to the house, they broke in, arresting two men and two women and confiscating a number of pistols and shotguns. The two women (both with X’s on their heads) were Priscilla Cooper, 21, and Nancy Pitman, 20. The two men were Michael Monfort, 24, and James Craig, 33, both state prison escapees. Both were members of the Aryan Brotherhood. While in the house, the police noticed freshly turned earth in the basement. They began digging, and early the following morning exhumed the body of Lauren Willett, 19. She had been shot once in the head.
Priscilla Cooper claimed that Lauren Willett had killed herself playing Russian roulette.
On April 2, Michael Monfort, pleaded guilty to the murder of Lauren Willett. James Craig, Priscilla Cooper, and Nancy Pitman pleaded guilty to being an accessory after the fact to murder. Monfort, and an accomplice, William Goucher, 23, subsequently pleaded guilty to second degree murder in the death of James Willett.
The motive for the two murders is not known. It is known that the Willetts had been associated with the Manson Family for at least a year, and possibly longer. Police surmised that Lauren Willett was killed after learning of the murder of her husband, to keep her from going to the police. As for the murder of James Willett, the official police theory is that Willett himself may have been about to inform about the robberies the group had committed.
109 comments:
Please...
Everyone join me, in thanking Kimchi for a great thread.
Thanks Again Kimchi!!!
You're the Absolute Best!!
The video and photos came-out Awesome!!!
All your contributions are very much appreciated... as are the contributions of everyone here... from the old-timers, to the new-comers... no one excluded.
You guys ROCK!
Great stuff Kimchi :)
That house may not be as notorious as the others on the Time list...
but no doubt to the Willet's- it was truly a house of horrors...
Great Kimchi! Thank you!
Thanks Kimchi & Lynyrd!
I'm assuming this was another rental house they were living in? It doesn't look like the kind of house that would have a basement.
Nancy & Montford got married while in jail, then later divorced.
Boy that Nancy knew how to pick 'em. She went from the Manson Family to the Aryan Brotherhood!
I wonder what happened to the Willet's baby.
Nancy Pitman is another one I just scratch my head over.
She came from a wealthy family and could have had anything or been anything she wanted.
I believe she was introduced to Charles Manson and the family through her friend Deirdre Lansbury, Angela Lansbury's daughter
And she chose to join the Manson Family and commit murder.
Thanks Kimchi. You've shared some uncommon sites and photos we don't usually see, thank you very much! I love visiting places connected to TLB, and seeing if energy from another time survives. Sometimes it jumps out and grabs you, other times, it's completely swept away like it was never there at all. Thanks much.
Some additional info about the house. The lady who owns it is acquainted with Mark Turner and apparently was at one time interested in giving paid tours of the basement ($5 a head). She is also sue-happy when people photograph her place so tread lightly, friends.
Katie said>>>>
"It doesn't look like the kind of house that would have a basement".<<<<
Actually, some sources describe it as a "crawl space"... rather than a full-fledged basement.
However, I found it described as a "basement" more frequently (and in Bugliosi's book)... so, I left it as basement.
Having never been down there myself... I couldn't say for sure, which description, is more accurate.
Katie said>>>>
"Boy that Nancy knew how to pick 'em. She went from the Manson Family to the Aryan Brotherhood"!<<<<
I paraphrased from the original excerpt, as to save folks some reading, but the original, expounds on the Aryan Brotherhood topic, as follows:
"Both (Michael Monfort and James Craig) had the letters 'AB' tattooed on their left breasts. According to a spokesman for the state Department of Corrections, the initials stood for the Aryan Brotherhood, described as 'a cult of white prison inmates, dedicated largely to racism but also involved in hoodlum activities, including murder contracts ....'
More detailed information (on how the murders were actually carried-out) can be read, at the link below...
Beware... it's pretty gruesome stuff.
According to this... James was forced to dig his own grave.
It implies that Lauren was buried alive, as her 8-month old daughter watched.
http://charliemanson.com/parole-goucher.htm
>>>Patty said: The lady who owns it is acquainted with Mark Turner and apparently was at one time interested in giving paid tours of the basement ($5 a head).>>>
For some reason that just cracks me up!!
I could just see her out on the front porch with a megaphone.
"Step right up. See the famous basement. Only $5/head. Yow-sah, yow-sah, yow-sah."
HA HA.
Patty said>>>>
"Some additional info about the house. The lady who owns it is acquainted with Mark Turner and apparently was at one time interested in giving paid tours of the basement ($5 a head). She is also sue-happy when people photograph her place so tread lightly, friends".<<<<<
Patty... I'm not doubting that your warning is sincere, or that your information is accurate, but considering the messenger here (LMAO)... I'm having a hard time keeping a straight face.
I mean... I'm being cautioned regarding the use of photos, from an administrator at Liz's blog???
AHahahaha
This is like to receiving diet/fitness advice from a 450 pound woman. AHahaha
I love ya Patty... but, there's just WAY too much irony here to ignore.
I tried, and tried... I really did.
I sat on my hands for at least an hour, but... I finally gave-in.
BTW Richard...
I noticed you uploaded a photo, and added yourself as a follower.
Good for you brother!
Glad to have ya on-board!
Welcome to "CharliesAngel" as well, who also added herself as a follower!
Marliese I like the way you worded that.
It's one thing to read about places and what happened there, but it brings more reality to actually see the place and sometimes it hasn't changed a bit.
Great post Marliese... thanks.
OK that is pretty funny, ain't it? WTH is wrong with Patty this week? I gotta get some sunshine. ;) Peace
Lynyrd thanks for the link to charliemanson.com.
The way they killed James reminds me of the Shorty Shea killing.
That's sickening that they buried her alive!!!! Monstrous!
Patty you freakin' ROCK!!!!
I'm just bustin' ya. LOLOL
You have to admit... that was pretty funny. LOLOL
Your words of caution are appreciated, and duly noted.
Have a great day... filled will with much sunshine!!!!
In fact... the sun is blazing here, as well (a rare treat in mass).... so, I'm gonna go outside and enjoy it while it lasts... good idea!
Peace..... Lynyrd
There's no law in California that says you can't photograph a street, home, etc..
Look at google earth, you can zoom down and do a complete tour of the outside of a house and neighborhood..
And BTW, cops go through trash during investigations once it's put on the street, a street is public domain...bring on the law suits...LOL
Kimchi I agree.
I was thinking, what kind of a person would buy a house where someone was buried alive in the basement, then offer to sell tours for $5/head. It doesn't sound like someone who is interested in privacy.
Not only that, but the realtor has to "disclose" prior facts of what is known of the property...
Unless of course, it was a bank forclosure...
From what I've heard, the Labianca house buyers knew full well what happened there, but it was a "good buy"...I know a person that rented it in the late 70's...he didn't know what happened until one of his party friends told him...then he stole a bunch of goodies and sold them...like the electric lanterns at the gate...LOL - they are now on a home in Pasadena...LOL
Kimchi, I think that whoever owns that house knew full well the tragedy that occurred there, and coupled with being linked to the Manson Family, probably bought it for that reason.
She probably doesn't care about privacy...only about $$$$. If you photograph it she doesn't get any payola. LOL.
Well, the way I look at it, if you buy property that was involved in a higly publicized case, you take your chances on "privacy".
BTW, Squeaky was also involved in this case, only because she called the house and the police answered the phone. They arrested her as an accessory, but later let her go.
I can't believe they even involved her. I'm sure it's only because she was in the Manson Family and they figured she might have killed someone.
As far as I know, Squeaky never killed anyone.
Who is Priscilla Cooper? I never heard of her.
I read somewhere that the house was a rent house and had 2 bedrooms.
2 bedrooms and 3 couples & a baby. Man that's gotta be a lotta fun. HA HA.
Hopefully they were all doing a "courtesy flush" in the bathroom.
All tenants get equal kitchen and bathroom privleges!!! LOL.
Wish I could post pictures...Pricilla Cooper was arrested with Nancy...her mom (in LA) posted bail on one of the guys...have to look it up to give you specifics...she had a "wondering eye"...not to make note of handicapped people, but her mug shot was "different"..now you know who I'm talking about?
Should have been spelled "wandering" - you know, when one eye lookes straight, and the other points sideways...(only way to describe it)
Kimchi, I know what you're describing when you say "wandering eye" (or lazy eye it's sometimes called), but I can't recall a mugshot of this girl.
Did she join the Manson Family after the Barker Raid in October 1969? There are a lot of people who joined then that I haven't paid any attention to and know nothing of.
Do you know her a/k/a? That might ring a bell.
Yes, she was way after the Barker raid...she lived at the Flora house and was arrested with Nancy - Pricilla K. Cooper...but she did have an "x" on her forehead..I think she had something to do with Monfort's brother...
Didn't Kitty marry a Goucher? or something?
Wow- wonderful video....Kimchi, what did you think of Stockton? We have an office up there and I have heard the crime rate in Stockton is high. I am not as familiar with the Willetts....what made everyone go to Stockton? Seems like an odd place just to be.....
People involved in Lauren Willett's case:
James T. Craig - (killed and found in car trunk)
Pricilla Cooper - friend of Craig-served time for L. Willett's murder
Michael Monfort - AB - married to Nancy Pitman
Edward Barabas (also burned in trunk, AB, not involved in murder)
Billy Goucher - charged with Lauren's murder
Nancy - did time for Lauren's murder (accessory only)
Squeeky - suspect only
Lynn said:
--Wow- wonderful video....Kimchi, what did you think of Stockton? We have an office up there and I have heard the crime rate in Stockton is high. I am not as familiar with the Willetts....what made everyone go to Stockton? Seems like an odd place just to be.....--
Stockton is hot in the summer Lynn! I didn't think too much of that neighborhood...as you can see, I drove around it over and over...LOL...I think they moved there to be somewhat close to Charlie - he was in San Quintin then and then moved to Vacaville or Folsom..Stockton was somewhat in between.
Kimchi...
I believe Goucher was charged in connection with James Willett's death... not Lauren's.
From CharlieManson.com:
Monfort and Craig were both prison escapees who had been associating with the Manson Family.
Monfort pleaded guilty to Lauren's murder and was given a sentence of seven years to life. Pitman, Craig and Cooper all pleaded guilty to being accessories after the fact.
Later, Monfort and William Goucher pleaded guilty to second degree murder for the death of James Willett.
Craig also pleaded guilty to being an accessory after the fact in James' death.
William Goucher went on to marry Family member Maria "Crystal" Alonzo".
Thanks for the correction LS...
I'm not real "up" on this particular case...
Going by memory only and it isn't very reliable lately!
But I do know that Kitty married a Goucher, I think it was Billy's brother...
Katie... Priscilla Cooper can be viewed here:
http://connect.in.com/squeaky-fromme/photos-1-1-1-ac2a413a83a917e4335dcf6e64e298c7.html
Kimchi, I heard Kitty married Billy Goucher's brother Veldon.
That's all I really know.
These girls just keep attracting losers!!
What happened after that I don't know.
Thanks Lynyrd. I saw that pic, but I still don't recognize her.
That's a large girl with no bra and big teats.
Never laid eyes on her before!!!
She looks like she could kick Tex's ass. HA HA.
Yeah... those are some large un-supported Jugs! LOLOL
I bet if Manson saw those... he'd buy her a bra. LOLOL
That's not the usual Manson girl mosquito bites, right there. : )
Stockton, California.
Isn't that where The Big Valley is, starring Miss Barbara Stanwyck. HA HA.
And Heath. He was sooooo cute!!! Lee Majors. RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
>>>Lynyrd said: Yeah... those are some large un-supported Jugs! LOLOL
I bet if Manson saw those... he'd buy her a bra. LOLOL
That's not the usual Manson girl mosquito bites, right there. : )>>>
Yeah Lynyrd, those are some big ole nips.
That Priscilla was a lot heftier than the other girls. It's a good thing she joined up after the others were all in jail.
Charlie would have to get on top of her, or get crushed. LMAO.
Chris Isaak is from Stockton- love Chris!
Hey Lynn!!!
Katie:
Do you remember a while back... when someone was suggesting that Manson had "relations" with Mama Cass (LOL)... and Matt said he was getting a "Bad Visual"?
ROFLMFAO
The was the funniest shit, I've seen on a blog, in a long time.
I was practically crying.
>>>Lynyrd said: Katie:
Do you remember a while back... when someone was suggesting that Manson had "relations" with Mama Cass (LOL)... and Matt said he was getting a "Bad Visual"?
ROFLMFAO
The was the funniest shit, I've seen on a blog, in a long time.
I was practically crying.>>>
Yes I do!!! That was soooo funny.
I can just see Manson with Mama Cass. That would be like "kneading dough".
That reminds me of an old joke.
"Fatty and skinny went to bed....fatty rolled over...skinny was dead."
HA HA HA HA.
Can you imagine 5 foot 2, 135 pound Charlie, mounting that steed?
AHahahaha
All I can think of is Charlie telling her how pretty she is, how much he loves her, think about yer Daddy...yada, yada, and then him trying to find the hole.
You know that mysterious hole that he can never seem to find???
"Okay, where is it? I know it's here somewhere. Just stop wigglin'. I"ll find it."
HAHAHAHA!!!
I have to say I love Mama Cass. She is buried in the Jewish cemetery, next to Griffith Park. Have always wanted to go and visit her grave....have not gotten around to it...
I think it was Sebring's funeral was in Forest Lawn Glendale- in the little church up the hill. Reagan and Jane Wyman were married in that church. Was just thinking about it because thinking of Mamas and Papas, you can clearly see John and Michelle at the funeral. Forest Lawn Glendale also is home to Liz Taylor and Michael Jackson. They also have an art gallery on the premises. I use to live down the hill from the cemetery...it was always green and the coyotes would cry from the hill every night....
Lynn you're sweet. Such sweet sentiment.
I hope you're doing okay after your cat's recent demise.
I know that's hard.
Okay guys, I'm off to bed. Tomorrow is another day!
Sorry Lynn.
The Mama Cass thing, is just an old joke from the past.
I like coyotes myself.
Is the "Rapture" prediciton pacific time?
'Cuz, It's already well into sunday here, and I'm still alive. LOL
I was not condoning your joke, so please do not think that...I was typing about Mama Cass before you did the jokes...I have always really liked her and always felt bad that she was searching for something she did not get...
I am doig better...the ashes came home the other day and that was hard. I have started visiting the animal shelters but my other half is not quite ready, so I will need to wait for him......
I just finished chores so I am off to enjoy a glass of champagne on the deck....and toast to another day....
In case I am not on tomorrow (we are getting together with our really fun and wacky German friends) enjoy the rest of your weekend!
"think about yer Daddy"...
LMAO Katie.
kimchi said>>> "then he stole a bunch of goodies and sold them...like the electric lanterns at the gate...LOL - they are now on a home in Pasadena...LOL"
What a guy. Stole the lights.
Damn, that's terrible.
I wonder if anyone ever tore up the floorboards under the carpets with the blood of Rosemary and Leno seeped into the hardwood floors.
Panamint Patty said...
She is also sue-happy when people photograph her place so tread lightly, friends.
TRUE! I was the one who submitted the first photos of this house to Mark many years ago. We were both threatened with legal action. We refused to take the pictures down, but comprimised by just listing them as "West Flora St" with no house number.
Hello Grump, and thanks for the second warning... but it's not necessary.
I believed Patty, the first time around.
As I said to Patty:
"I'm not doubting that your warning is sincere, or that your information is accurate".
If we must continue this duscussion, here goes:
I'm not overly worried, about lawsuit-lady.
These photos were taken from a personal automobile, on a public street... capturing the outside of a house.
This woman is obviously something of a quack.
Now, if for instance... I opened a fake Facebook account... depicted myself as a teenager... and managed to "friend" the grandson or grand-daughter of an ex-family member.. to gain access to all their family photos...
And then... I pillaged their photos in search of grandpa (ex-family member), or grandma (ex-family member)...
And then... I maliciously obscured the faces of all grandchildren, children, and spouses, caught eronoeously in the foreground...
And then... I ruthlessly used those family photos... which involve weddings, hospital births, walks in the park, and other various visits with grandchildren... and posted those online...
Sure Grump... I'd be quite concerned... and quite frankly... ashamed of myself.
Luckily... my photos are taken from a personal vehicle, on a public street... and are not half as intrusive, or deceptive.
My experience Grump, is that lawsuits are often threatened, but not frequently carried-out.
The reason being... lawsuits are very expensive to pursue.
If there isn't a lot to be gained, or a lot to be lost... it's just not worth it.
At the end of the day Grump... if this woman wanted to invest good money, to have a few photos of the outside of her house taken-down... I'd take them down.
There isn't a single thread, on this blog... or any blog for that matter... that's gonna make-or-break the place.
I wish we could've interacted (for the first time) on a more enjoyable topic Grump.
I enjoy your posts, photos, and your avatar.
Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black Grump?
Is a third member from Liz's blog gonna come here with a warning?
I change threads frequently.
This thread will be buried for all eternitly (most likely), in 48 hours.
A week from now, no one would even notice if I erased this entire thread anyway.
What exactly is this all about?
Grump... sorry it was you, who caught the "brunt" of all this brother.
You're a very cool cat, as far as I've seen.
But C'mon man... you've got photos over there with oxygen tanks for pete's sake! LOL
Where the heck is all this coming from?
BTW... Thanks Kimchi on the heads-up, regarding the latest "Manson Child" article this morning.
Much appreciated...
I hope you understand... but, I chose to pass on it, as a thread.
Without DNA testing, to me, there's not much to talk about... except... "oh, I think she has his nose, or his ears"... LOL
I think she might have his "package" to be honest with ya. LOLOL
Is it just me... or, does that look just like a man in "drag"?
The face? the HANDS?
Seriously... that looks like a dude with pony-tails to me.
Lynyrd, I was going to post earlier but got busy doing other things, but I agree with you. It's easy to threaten but in order to back it up you have to have a case, and this woman doesn't.
As I said before, if you buy a property knowing that it was involved in a high profile case, you accept the consequences of people trying to see it. Period.
>>>Lynyrd said: Without DNA testing, to me, there's not much to talk about... except... "oh, I think she has his nose, or his ears"... LOL
I think she might have his "package" to be honest with ya. LOLOL
Is it just me... or, does that look just like a man in "drag"?
The face? the HANDS?
Seriously... that looks like a dude with pony-tails to me.>>>
LMFAO!!!! I saw that picture and thought the same thing!!
"She's got "man-hands". HA HA!!
Lynyrd - love you, man. LOL!
I love you too Mary!
...and that's "really and for true"! : )
(That's from an old cartoon). LOL
Lynyrd, i wouldn't give it a second thought. You're not using the photograph(s) to make money, no one broke any laws to obtain the photographs...as in trespassing on private property ...they were obtained through a car window on a public street, they were willingly gifted to you, no use or copyright was violated, and no one has libeled or intentionally misrepresented any facts regarding the property or anyone associated with it.
Facts are facts, the alleged activity associated with the building is public information. I don't think the circumstances are the same as posting personal photographs of people without consent, are they?
Marliese....well said!
In answer to your previous question, I don't believe those floors were replaced at the LaBianca house when they recarpeted.
Thanks Katie.
Thanks too for the info, I've wondered many times if any bloodsucking thieves stole them. :)
To me, it's ghoulish to steal something from a house where people were brutally butchered. I mean, what are you going to do with it??
Also, I wouldn't buy a house where people were brutally murdered, or where someone had been buried in the basement alive.
I couldn't shut my eyes at night, I'd be too weirded out!!
Regarding 720 W. Flora, Stockton,
Google provides a very nice picture...
http://maps.google.com/maps?hq=http://maps.google.com/help/maps/streetview/mapleft.kml#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-sk-svr&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=street%20view
End of subject...
The guy I worked with with was an intersting character...married at least 7 times, was with wife #3 when he rented the LB home...he said there was basement there..below the garage...I've never heard that mentioned...wifey #3 and her friends were the ones that put all the brick in the backyard...
Like the LaBianca house, they changed the address but big deal. Everyone knows the new one. And all you have to do is Google 3301 Waverly and it comes up with the new address.
So the people who live there just have to endure all the curiousity seekers and probably would-be theives who would steal anything that's lying around.
To me, it wouldn't be worth it.
Plus, the creepiness of just living there. Eeewwwww.
Marliese said>>>>
"Lynyrd, i wouldn't give it a second thought".
Believe me, Marliese... having this conversation with Liz's clan is so absurd, it's ridiculous.
Their entire site, is a lawsuit, waiting to happen.
Does anyone on this planet, really believe Ella Jo Bailey, woke-up one day, and decided to (voluntarily) send personal photos to a website, called "Evil Liz's Manson Cult"?
I can see that conversation:
Ella:
"Hun, there's this great new website, called "Evil Liz's Manson Cult"... I really want to send her recent family photos".
"I'm so excited".
Husband/Boyfriend:
"Good idea Hun"!
Ella:
"I'm thinking this photo would be nice".
Husband/Boyfriend:
"No, No Honey... not that one.
Send the photo with our GRANDSON in the foreground... AND the OXYGEN TUBES up your nose"!
Ella:
"Yes, yes honey... you're right"!
"I don't want to miss this grand opportunity to have our grandson, and my oxygen tank online for the whole world"!
Does anyone in their right mind, really believe that's how those photos ended-up online?
That it was voluntary?
ANYONE?
C'mon... let's get real.
Marliese:
I can be the nicest guy in the whole world... and I can be someone's worst nightmare.
All I ask... is to be treated respectfully, and left alone.
If Liz's folks want to continue this conversation on my blog... I will continue to dig deeper.
OR... they can just leave me the fuck alone... and mind their business.
Their choice.
I told Patty, "your words of caution are appreciated, and duly noted".
"Appreciated and duly noted".
That should have been the end of it.
I don't have to appreciate, and duly note, this crap a second time.
Kimchi, I think we're posting at the same time. HA HA.
>>>Kimchi said: The guy I worked with with was an intersting character...married at least 7 times, was with wife #3 when he rented the LB home...he said there was basement there..below the garage...I've never heard that mentioned...wifey #3 and her friends were the ones that put all the brick in the backyard...>>>
A basement below the garage?? I've not heard that one. Did you ever get to see the house???
Lynyrd, tell us how you really feel. LOLOL
I have one question.
Q: How many blog adminstrators does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: Five. One to hold the light bulb and four to turn the ladder.
HA HA.
Kimchi, just curious. What was the monthly rent on that place???
Thanks LS - you said something I wanted to say:
""OR... they can just leave me the fuck alone... and mind their business
Their choice."" ditto....
Anyway...Katie - he said he paid $150.00 a month for the place...wifey #3 was Puerto Rican and practiced Santeria...it was his party place...she found the rental, they moved in..then he found out what happened there...he said (and I don't concur) that the place next door had something to do with the rituals they practiced there...not the True house, but the Catholic place...
He was just explicit on the details...gave me some stuff from there too that I gave away...no, not carpet or blood, nothing "ghoulish"....
Wow!! $150.00/month??? That's cheap for that house, especially in California.
I was paying $175/month for a duplex in 1978 that was about 300 square feet. And nothing to look at.
Lynyrd, I don't think they'll bother you again!!!
Katie said>>>>
"Lynyrd, tell us how you really feel. LOLOL"
Yeah... I'll tell ya how I really feel.
1) These folks better not rattle Kimchi.
She's a very good friend, and her photos and videos are awesome.
This is all borne out of jealousy... plain and simple.
2) My bloggers couldn't voice their true opinion on ANY subject, over at Liz's.
The only thing my folks could get away with saying at Liz's... was "great thread, thanks Liz".
NOW... I've got Liz's folks over here... telling ME, to "TREAD LIGHTYLY"... in regards to PHOTOS?!
Let's get one thing straight.
My bloggers may have to "tread lightly" at Liz's place... but, they can tread any way they damn well please over here.
Kimchi... you can take a large hot shit, right in the middle of the room, for all I care.
You're my friend... you've got "CARTE BLANCHE".
That goes for Mary, Katie and ALL my other regulars.
As for the visitors from Liz's:
You're welcome... but tread VERY lightly.. very lightly... and watch your every word.
Say only "Nicey" things.
What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.
Love you LS...
Anyway, Katie, there's more to be said about the supposed "back alley" into the Labianca house...
and who was there before Charlie got there...
I know, you don't like that theory...
>>>Kimchi said: Anyway, Katie, there's more to be said about the supposed "back alley" into the Labianca house...
and who was there before Charlie got there...
I know, you don't like that theory...>>>
Who was there before Charlie got there??? I'm not sure I know what you're talking about. :)
Okay hold that thought because I've been given the green light to do some opinionatin' of my own regarding a certain "blog"!! HA HA.
I meant no harm Lynyrd, I truly thought that you and I were ok. Sorry, I must have misunderstood.
Another thing I would like to add here, I feel honered blogging with Katie, Marliese, Robert, Lynn, Mary, bedpan, etc. and especially LS - I've followed some of you for years now...
Thank you!!! xxoo
Kimchi, never mind. Got a red light. HA HA.
Who was there before Charlie got there??? I'm not sure I know what you're talking about. :)
>>>Kimchi said: Another thing I would like to add here, I feel honered blogging with Katie, Marliese, Robert, Lynn, Mary, bedpan, etc. and especially LS - I've followed some of you for years now...
Thank you!!! xxoo>>>
Kimchi it's great blogging with you too. You are so knowledgeable and interesting!! Thanks for being a fellow blogger!!!
Let me expound on the light bulb joke.
It had to do with all the administrators at Liz's blog.
Okay.....if you have to explain a joke, it's not really funny. (:
HA HA HA.
81 comments! Damn Sam!!!!
Hot diggety dog!!!
YYYYYYYEAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!
Hi Patty.
We were cool, but when I came online this evening, and was confronted with this issue a second time... I wasn't in the mood to play... plain and simple.
Patty... I told you... "I don't doubt that your warning is sincere, or that your information is accurate".
I also said... "your words of caution are appreciated, and duly noted".
That means, I believe you, and I've got your message.
It also means (implied), that I'll use your information, and exercise my own judgement... which is my prerogative, since it's my blog.
So... why is Grump here, relaying the SAME message a SECOND time??
I heard you LOUD AND CLEAR the first time Patty... loud and clear.
Bottom Line Patty:
The photo of this stupid little yellow house, is all over the place.
It's on Turner's site... your site... google... I'm sure it's even at Cat's place somewhere.
So, what's this all about Patty?
Kimchi and I put a LOT of work into presenting this thread for my members.
Can we at least enjoy it, and feel proud of it, for a couple days?
Is that too much to ask?
Do you feel good about coming in here, and ruining my thread?
I NEVER go to your site, and caution you... as to what you should, or shouldn't post.
I never do that... nor would I do that.
That would be an act of dis-respect on my part.
Yet... TWO folks from your blog, have already come here, and interrupted the enjoyment of this thread for my viewers!
That's an act of dis-respect towards me Patty.
Patty... with all due respect... your ENTIRE blog... is based around posting photos with "questionable" origins.
Can you at least admit that much??
So... why are you busting my balls?
I like you Patty... but this issue is absurd.
You have the SAME little yellow house on your own site!
Treat me, and my bloggers with respect, and you'll be treated very well by me.
That's the most polite I can be right now.
It's good you didn't post an hour ago.
I had horns growing out the side of my head. : )
Thread Ruiner! LOL
>>I had horns growing out the side of my head. : )
Thread Ruiner! LOL?>>
Nah, can't imagine that...
Interesting thought though!
Katie said"
>>Who was there before Charlie got there??? I'm not sure I know what you're talking about. :)<<
I've heard some talk about the "Frankie Carbo" people...
Lynyrd knows what I'm talking about...
>>>Kimchi said: >>Who was there before Charlie got there??? I'm not sure I know what you're talking about.
I've heard some talk about the "Frankie Carbo" people...
Lynyrd knows what I'm talking about...>>>
So you're saying the "mob" was there when Leno & Rosemary got home???? I've heard nothing about this. Please expound. I'm curious.
If they were there, why didn't they off the LaBiancas? And why did Rosemary go to bed??? Seems like she would have been upset. Why was Leno ready about the dailies a little while later?
Shit, I meant "reading about the dailies". GRRR.
Lynyrd and Kimchi - thank you for your hard work on this thread...it was very much appreciated and not at all ruined.
I know you think Rosemary was all pink and roses...
She was a lesbo...nothing wrong with that...whatever trips your trigger..she swung both ways..police knew that...
But Leno was into it much deeper...he owed big time...$500.00 week gambling habit was not small in 1969...average rent was about 75.00 per month...
And they had business dealings in Las Vegas..not talked about much...but look who his partner was in Vegas...
See then, Patty did misunderstand. Thank you for explaining to her what disrespectful is to you, from your perspective. She promises that she did not send Grump over to harass you and also that she will not ruin any more threads. Peace.
>>Kimchi said: I know you think Rosemary was all pink and roses...
She was a lesbo...nothing wrong with that...whatever trips your trigger..she swung both ways..police knew that...>>
Kimchi I've read that on avante garde websites. Her ex-husband claimed that.
Whether tis here nor there, I really don't care. Doesn't mean she deserved to die.
>>>But Leno was into it much deeper...he owed big time...$500.00 week gambling habit was not small in 1969...average rent was about 75.00 per month...>>>
Okay he wasn't renting that house. He bought it from his mother. And I can't imagine that the payment was $75.00/month.
The Cielo Drive house was $1,200/month. Which was a lot of money in 1969!!
>>>And they had business dealings in Las Vegas..not talked about much...but look who his partner was in Vegas...>>>
I know he had business in LV, and I'm sure his partner was in the mob.
I have no doubt that his killing was due to gambling debts.
But...what I don't get, is why did they get Charlie to off them.
And #2, why would they off Rosemary?
I've never known the mob to hire some sloppy assailants to kill folks, leave a bloody mess, leave writings on the wall, eat, and drink and be merry.
The mob just kills, not personal...just business.
Why kill Rosemary?
Because she's a lesbo? The mob only kills the person who violated the contract, not the family.
Rosemary could have been forking Barbie dolls for all I care...why would she deserve death? That's what I can't figure out.
You know, regardless of Leno & Rosemary's sexual proclivities, did they deserve to die like they did? I think not.
Leno was lying on his back with his hands tied behind him, and Tex stabbed him in the neck 4 times then around the colon area, all fatal wounds.
What a pussy Tex is!!! Stabbing a defenseless man. A man that can't fight back.
I don't know how that guy can even looks in the mirror every day, knowing what he did. He's a pussy.
He goes to Cielo Drive with a gun to ward off the guys, then chases and stabs the women to death.
Then the next night, stabs a defenseless man to death, and his wife who is bound with a lamp cord, crawls 2 feets, and gets her spinal cord cut and she's paralyzed, so they can finish her off.
Yeah, Tex is a big man. NOT!!! He's a fucking pussy!!
He can say he's saved all he wants, but if he can look himself in the mirror and not vomit, then he's a fucking liar.
Kimchi said>>>>
"Another thing I would like to add here, I feel honered blogging with Katie, Marliese, Robert, Lynn, Mary, bedpan, etc. and especially LS - I've followed some of you for years now...
Thank you!!! xxoo"<<<<<
Thank You Kimchi.
I agree... we have very knowledgable, experienced, folks here.
It's a great group, and I'm very fortunate.
And yes... some of us have been doing this for a very long time... Katie, Marliese, Bedpan, Myself...
There's one other very knowledgable, experienced long-timer, who I wish would contribute more often... Pristash.
The man is very intelligent, an old friend, and a real gentlemen.
He and I, were digging into the Frank Carbo stuff, when we parted ways.
He's come-on here, and placed some really good jokes here and there... but, I know he's capable of much more.
Anyway Pristash... if you're out there... let's ROCK brother!
Thanks to everyone...
Circumstance is another very notable blogger and friend, Bob, Lynn... I could never name everyone, for fear of excluding someone... you know who you are.
Key words -
<>
Why do you say "Charlie" and it was Tex that "offed" them...sorry..but fact..
Should have been"
""""""
Darn blogger...
"Why kill Rosemary"
Collateral - or a witness -
Okay you all know how I feel about good ole baby-killin' Tex.
I think he's the scum of the earth. He should have been pushing-up daisies 40 years ago.
I don't, however, think he killed Karl Stubbs.
I think that's just another fantasy thought of people trying to close cases.
Just my thoughts.
"There's one other very knowledgable, experienced long-timer, who I wish would contribute more often... Pristash.
The man is very intelligent, an old friend, and a real gentlemen.
He and I, were digging into the Frank Carbo stuff, when we parted ways"
Too bad, you guys were on to something, in my thoughts...
Yes, because of Pristash, I bought and read "Dead Circus" - gave me food for thought, but nothing more...unfortunately.
>>>Kimchi said: Why do you say "Charlie" and it was Tex that "offed" them...sorry..but fact..>>>
Yes Ma'am, Tex offed them. But Charles was in charge. As always. You know that, my dear.
>>>Kimchi said: Why kill Rosemary"
Collateral - or a witness ->>>
Kimchi we all know that when the mob kills folks, they only kill the perp. They don't kill family.
Now if you're talking "witness", then I guess Charlie ordered it, as she was a witness to Leno's murder.
And I have to say, if the mob had killed him, it would have been quick. 2 shots to the head.
Not some lame knifing to the throat and onto the lower abdomen for more bleeding. And Rosemary's death was even slower.
"41 stab wounds, and 16 times in the lower back".
Tex paralyzed her with stab wounds by cutting her spinal cord. She couldn't even crawl anymore. She just had to lay there and take it.
Thus: all the blood on the floor that leaked onto the hardwood floors.
Yeah.
I posted a new "topical" thread. LOL
Just a quick FYI Kimchi.
If you post anything remotely defamatory about any of the victims, Katie goes into "Magelo-Maniac" mode. LOLOL
Just figured, I'd give you a friendly heads-up. : )
Ok0 we juwst hung with our German friends at the Silverlake Jubilee (by all of the attire of the hipsters, you would swear it was 1969- 1974 all over again) and then to the Red Lion for German Beer so here goes.....
I love this blog and thanks to L/S for putting it together. To all of the fellow commenters and to Kimchi for the wonderful new topics....
Katie, I agree, the manson "supposedly daughter" looks like a man. Reminds me of a Husker Du song "She's a woman and now she is a man"...
Not sure about being one to profess that you are the son or daughter of someone...why? for 15 minutes of fame?
This is not for any simpanthy or anyhting else, but as an adopted child, I know my mother but my father is MIA, which makes me affectionately call myself the "bastard child".....which I find funny....maybe I should start claiming taht my father was Manson? Nah....no need to have my 15 minutes of fame or whatever.......
But who was Adrea Krakov? Does that name ring a bell with anyone?
Lynn said>>>>
"Ok0 we juwst hung with our German friends at the Silverlake Jubilee (by all of the attire of the hipsters, you would swear it was 1969- 1974 all over again) and then to the Red Lion for German Beer so here goes".....<<<<
Wow!
Partying at the Silverlake Jubilee with Hipsters... and out to the Red Lion afterwards, for German Beer?!!
Oh YEAH!!!
That settles it... I'm definitely in the wrong state!!!
Lynn said>>>>
"I love this blog and thanks to L/S for putting it together. To all of the fellow commenters and to Kimchi for the wonderful new topics"....<<<<
Thanks Lynn!
We LOVE having you here!!!!
Lynn said>>>>
"Katie, I agree, the manson "supposedly daughter" looks like a man. Reminds me of a Husker Du song "She's a woman and now she is a man"...<<<<
Honest to goodness Lynn... I've been singing "Dude Looks Like a Lady", by Aerosmith, all day long! LOLOL
Seriously... I'm not just saying that to be funny... I really have!
She looks like a man in a "woman suit" to me. Or maybe a woman in a "man suit". HA HA.
Boy she's rough.
Charlie, you dodged a bullet on this one. HA HA.
You know Charlie you would owe around $6,000,000 in child support had anyone come out of the closet when their kids were young.
Sowed too much seed. You lucked out.
HA HA.
LynyrdSkynyrdBand said...
"So... why is Grump here, relaying the SAME message a SECOND time??
I heard you LOUD AND CLEAR the first time Patty... loud and clear."
Just adding comments to the blog. Fine, I'll keep my mouth shut!
Kimchi said...
"Why kill Rosemary"
Collateral - or a witness -
May 22, 2011 7:39 PM
Mr Poirot replies:
If the Labiancas were a mob hit why did Charlie drive around hunting victims for nearly two hours? Wouldn;t he have driven straight to Waverly street?
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